Tigers trade for two Rule 5 Draftees

[kalinecountry]

http://marioimpemba.com/1/post/2012/12/tigers-trade-for-rule-5-draftees.html
Tigers trade for Rule 5 draftees.
from Mario Impemba's Tigers blog

Jeff Kobernus was selected in the draft by the Red Sox and traded to the Tigers for Justin Henry. a middle infielder brings much needed speed to the organization.
The Tigers also traded for 23-year-old lefty Kyle Lobstein. The Mets selected him in the Rule 5 draft from the Rays and then dealt him to the Tigers for cash.

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2012/12/detroit_tigers_acquire_second.html
Detroit Tigers trade for second baseman Jeff Kobernus, left-hander Kyle Lobstein in Rule 5 draft.
from Mlive

The Tigers lost pitchers Jay Voss and Efrain Nieves to the St. Louis Cardinals and Toronto Blue Jays, respectively. The team also added a player in the Triple-A phase, selecting outfielder Eliezer Mesa, who spent last season in Oakland's farm system.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/...06&content_id=40550616&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
2012 Rule 5 Draft results.
from mlb.com

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/12/6/3735680/2012-mlb-rule-5-draft-player-analysis
2012 MLB Rule 5 Draft: Player Analysis.
from Sickels at minorleagueball

if rule 5 picks are traded do they still have to stick on MLB roster? Yes, same rules apply.
Jason Beck.

Interesting that Tigers were so active in Rule 5 draft. They think Lobstein could compete with Smyly for 5th starter, also could be LH reliever.
DannyKnobler.

http://www.freep.com/article/201212...yle-lobstein?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Detroit Tigers
Rule 5 draft: Tigers trade for 2B Jeff Kobernus, LHP Kyle Lobstein.
from the freep

Boston and the Mets made those selections in the first round before the Tigers had their first-round pick. The Tigers then passed on drafting anyone.

http://beck.mlblogs.com/2012/12/06/tigers-acquire-speedy-second-baseman-in-rule-5-draft/
Tigers acquire speedy second baseman, lefty pitcher in Rule 5 Draft.
from Jason Beck's Tigers blog

http://www.thedetroitsportssite.com...s-trade-for-jeff-kobernus-kyle-lobstein/27474
Rule 5 Draft: Detroit Tigers Trade for Jeff Kobernus, Kyle Lobstein.
from the detroitsportssite

http://tigers.scout.com/2/1247055.html
TigsTown Transaction Blog: Kobernus, Lobstein Acquired .

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2012/12/tigers-acquire-jeff-kobernus-kyle.html
Tigers Acquire Jeff Kobernus, Kyle Lobstein Via Rule 5 Draft.
from DetroitTigerTales

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/...06&content_id=40550964&vkey=news_det&c_id=det
Tigers add speed, lefty arm in Rule 5 Draft.
from the Tigers official site

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2012/12...-news-tigers-acquire-a-pair-of-rule-5-players
Winter Meetings news: Tigers acquire a pair of Rule 5 players.
from blessyouboystigersblog

 

[spockmaster]

interesting. i wonder if they could actually be useful.

 

[kalinecountry]

The 2B is a bit more interesting with the speed factor.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=kobern002jef
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=571862
BR and milb

Lobstein sounds more like Wilk2 or jamie moyer? soft tosser with some movement on pitches.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=lobste001kyl
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=543456
BR and milb

 

[spockmaster]

he's had pretty good K numbers for a soft-tosser, i think he could work out. the 2B could be interesting, if he can play defense and infante sucks it up we could try him out as an emergency starter.

 

[spockmaster]

"Tigers excited by both guys they got in Rule 5, but especially Kobernus. "He's the new Don Kelly," one Tigers person said."


ok, that scares the hell out of me. kelly sucks ass, why do we want another player who sucks ass?

 

[Rebbiv]

Kobernus fits the Tiger's mold.

Free-swinger who rarely takes a walk. His career minor league walk rate (21.97 PA/BB) is in the Delmon Young league.

Quite frankly, Rule 5 players rarely turn into anything. Johan Santana being the rare exception.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Nothing wrong with a speed guy. Use him late in games and It adds a needed dimension.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Kobernus f. s the Tiger's mold.

Free-swinger who ranything. akes a walk. His career minor league walk rate (21.97 PA/BB) is in the Delmon Young league.

Quite frankly, Rule 5 players rarely turn into anything. Johan Santana being the rare exception.

That's why they cost very little. I doubt even DD thinks they amount to anthing

 

[Rebbiv]

That's why they cost very little. I doubt even DD thinks they amount to anthing

They take up room on the 40-man roster, which is currently filled without signing anyone.

If we do sign someone (or 2), who do you suggest we cut? Worth, Putkonen? Both of who have as much value as Lobstein and Kobernus.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah, I'd cut them. We know what these two bring, nothing. At least Kobernus has speed. That alone makes him worth being the 25th man to PR.

 

[Thumb]

You're really overvaluing speed.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Kobernus was 120/149 in SBs in 290 minor league games. That's actually a considerably better rate than what Berry did in his AA time (Berry was 115/144 in SBs in 327 AA games). His minor league offensive stats are comparable to Berry's too, although they were much shorter and at lower levels. If nothing else, maybe he could add a middle infield pinch running option when rosters expand.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You're really overvaluing speed.

I rather have a speed guy who can run for Peralta in the ninth verse Worth who adds nothing we don't already have. How many INF utility men do we need? Worth is redunctant.

 

[Thumb]

I rather have a speed guy who can run for Peralta in the ninth verse Worth who adds nothing we don't already have. How many INF utility men do we need? Worth is redunctant.

So your logic is you take up a roster spot in case a slow guy like Peralta gets on base you have a guy to run for him?

Speed is nice Mitch, but speed alone is useless. Which is why I said you're overvaluing it.

All things being equal, speed takes a back seat to offensive production and defensive ability every time.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The 25th man is always useless, might as well use a guy who does one thing good.

And your last sentence, Worth doesn't do any of that. When he gets PT don't you just crinch?

 

[Thumb]

The 25th man is always useless, might as well use a guy who does one thing good.

And your last sentence, Worth doesn't do any of that. When he gets PT don't you just crinch?

Worth is good defensively. He can't hit his body weight, but he is more than capable with his glove. He's a decent runner too, though as I said, I don't value that too much.

I'm not comparing one to the other either, I'm just saying giving a guy a roster spot just because he's fast, is the wrong reason to give a guy a roster spot.

Also we're talking 40-man roster, not 25 man. None of those guys, the 2 new guys or Worth and Putkonnen belong on a 25 man roster, but Worth probably will be as the utility IF guy.

 

[Rebbiv]

Teams usually have 1-2 players (or more) that are on their 40-man roster that are no better than AAA or AAAA players. They keep them there so they can designate them for assignment when something better comes along (trade or FA signing).

Worth and Putkonen were already of the 40-man roster. Why add 2 more stiffs????


DET's previous Rule 5 picks


2008 LHP Kyle Bloom - returned to PIT on 29 Mar 2009

2006 LHP Edward Campusano - returned to CHC 10 Oct 2007

2005 RHP Chris Booker - PHI purchased from DET same day

2003 C Chris Shelton - traded to Tex 2007 for never used Freddy Guzman

2003 LHP Mike Bumatay- signed by BOS in Jan 06 as minor FA from DET

2003 RHP Lino Urdaneta - hurt for 132-games in 2004. Became a FA after 2004.

2002 3B Travis Chapman - purchased from CLE, returned PHI 26 Mar 2003

2002 LHP Wil Ledezma - traded to ATL in 2007 for LHP Macay McBride

2001 RHP Joe Valentine - returned to CHW in April 2002

2001 RHP Jeff Farnsworth - granted FA Oct 2003

2000 2B Jermaine Clark - returned to SEA 19 April 2001

1999 RHP Mark Johnson - released 28 June 2000

1998 RHP Eric Ludwick - traded same day to TOR for RHP Beiker Graterol

1997 LHP Sean Runyan - 64 IP at ML level. Basically done in by arm injuries at age 26

 

[Mitchrapp]

Worth is good defensively. He can't hit his body weight, but he is capable with his glove. He's a decent runner too, though as I said, I don't value that too much.

I'm not comparing one to the other either, I'm just saying giving a guy a roster spot just because he's fast, is the wrong reason to give a guy a roster spot.

Also we're talking 40-man roster, not 25 man. None of those guys, the 2 new guys or Worth and Putkonnen belong on a 25 man roster, but Worth probably will be as the utility IF guy.

No he isn't. Plus, one of my points I was trying to make is we already have Santiago to sub 2B and SS and we have guys who can sub in the OF. Worth is a wasted spot. I'd DFA him.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Teams usually have 1-2 players (or more) that are on their 40-man roster that are no better than AAA or AAAA players. They keep them there so they can designate them for assignment when something better comes along (trade or FA signing).

Worth and Putkonen were already of the 40-man roster. Why add 2 more stiffs????


DET's previous Rule 5 picks


2008 LHP Kyle Bloom - returned to PIT on 29 Mar 2009

2006 LHP Edward Campusano - returned to CHC 10 Oct 2007

2005 RHP Chris Booker - PHI purchased from DET same day

2003 C Chris Shelton - traded to Tex 2007 for never used Freddy Guzman

2003 LHP Mike Bumatay- signed by BOS in Jan 06 as minor FA from DET

2003 RHP Lino Urdaneta - hurt for 132-games in 2004. Became a FA after 2004.

2002 3B Travis Chapman - purchased from CLE, returned PHI 26 Mar 2003

2002 LHP Wil Ledezma - traded to ATL in 2007 for LHP Macay McBride

2001 RHP Joe Valentine - returned to CHW in April 2002

2001 RHP Jeff Farnsworth - granted FA Oct 2003

2000 2B Jermaine Clark - returned to SEA 19 April 2001

1999 RHP Mark Johnson - released 28 June 2000

1998 RHP Eric Ludwick - traded same day to TOR for RHP Beiker Graterol

1997 LHP Sean Runyan - 64 IP at ML level. Basically done in by arm injuries at age 26

They shouldn't be, that's the point. Worth shouldn't even be near a 40.

 

[Rebbiv]

They shouldn't be, that's the point. Worth shouldn't even be near a 40.

You're missing the point. We did not have to trade Justin Henry and cash considerations to get Worth and Putkonen. They were already here. And I admit they are mere AAA/AAAA at this point. But to trade for more AAA/AAAA players is not shrewd, unless it is a cost measure.

Kobernus

Lobstein

Worth

Putkonen

Holaday

Ramon Cabrera

Berry

Below

Downs

Ortega



All are destined to be AAA/AAA players. Yet, how many do you want on the 25-man roster? I don't want more than two. My bet we see as many as 4-5.