Time to reset?

[food4thought]

Is it time to blow up the roster and start over?

I think we should at least wait until mid season next year, if a fire sale is what Illitch and Avilla have decided upon. Right now we won't get full value for Miggy, Verlander, Sanchez, or M-mart due to poor play or injury riddled recent history.

We could get good value for Kinsler and JD, though.

So, should the team be reset fully or partially by trading off some premium players? If yes, should they wait until next season or start this winter?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Is it time to blow up the roster and start over?

I think we should at least wait until mid season next year, if a fire sale is what Illitch and Avilla have decided upon. Right now we won't get full value for Miggy, Verlander, Sanchez, or M-mart due to poor play or injury riddled recent history.

We could get good value for Kinsler and JD, though.

So, should the team be reset fully or partially by trading off some premium players? If yes, should they wait until next season or start this winter?

If we tried to trade Miggy.. All teams with the money would want him. He's a beast. Nonetheless, we ain't trading him. Fire sales seldom work out, mostly because the minor league players you get in return fail at a high percentage.

Best way to compete, don't sign the list of shit UFA and go and get pieces to fill out the rest of 25 man team.

 

[Thumb]

What value are we going to get for Kinsler at his age and contract? JD I agree with, but I really don't see Kinsler netting much in return.

 

[swami45]

If we tried to trade Miggy.. All teams with the money would want him. He's a beast. Nonetheless, we ain't trading him. Fire sales seldom work out, mostly because the minor league players you get in return fail at a high percentage.

Best way to compete, don't sign the list of shit UFA and go and get pieces to fill out the rest of 25 man team.

I would bet any of those teams would still want the tigers to eat a big chunk of hit contract if they were to ever trade Miggy.

Yes he is a beast, but he will be 33 coming off 3 straight injury seasons and still owed 240M over the next 8 years. The value we would get back from him would never match his value to the organization

 

[Mitchrapp]

I would bet any of those teams would still want the tigers to eat a big chunk of hit contract if they were to ever trade Miggy.

Yes he is a beast, but he will be 33 coming off 3 straight injury seasons and still owed 240M over the next 8 years. The value we would get back from him would never match his value to the organization

Most likely but people would want him regardless age. I mention this a lot but Miggy isn't your normal beast with power that wanes down as he gets older. He has a better skill set in which he can still hit for average and draw walks.. As far as value back, well that's a no brainer. He won't get near the value back.. For the fact, minor leaguer's are a bust quite a bit.

 

[lonesometiger]

Back to the thread title. They're too heavy into big contracts that are close too untradeable to start over. I know the Fielder trade was mad. But look at the cost it going to have now. Kinsler pay plus another 5 mil to Texas for Fielder! Should the Tigers not get a closer! that can close not even Verlander can win games. This 4- 3 lose is on the lack of BULL pen.
Hate to say it but there going to have to pay threw the noise for relief help.
They got to reload for 2016 b/c of the investment in Cabrera, Verlander, V-Mart, Sanchez, Kinsler. Those 5 are an arm and a leg.

 

[johnny2x2x]

We'll try to reload, but I think we have too many needs to compete for a title next year. And Ausmus cannot manage a bullpen, so even if we add a couple arms there it will still be bad.

We led the AL in batting, were 4th in OPS, but 10th in runs. That is just an incredible statistic. Poor base running and double plays galore killed this team.

We need a left fielder, a healthy Iglesias, 1 or maybe 2 quality starters, and a whole new BP. We also need players to be healthy. That's a lot of needs.

 

[paultigerfan68]

Is it time to blow up the roster and start over?

I think we should at least wait until mid season next year, if a fire sale is what Illitch and Avilla have decided upon. Right now we won't get full value for Miggy, Verlander, Sanchez, or M-mart due to poor play or injury riddled recent history.

We could get good value for Kinsler and JD, though.

So, should the team be reset fully or partially by trading off some premium players? If yes, should they wait until next season or start this winter?

They won't trade Cabrera or Verlander, and IMO, they shouldn't. With JD and Kinsler,that's the core players. Miggy is slowing down, but he's been hurt the second half. He's better at 75-80% than a lot of players at 100%. They need to sign or trade for one or two starters & bullpen help. Ver Hagen looks like a nice piece for the bullpen. There are going to be some quality outfielders on the open market.

 

[paultigerfan68]

Is it time to blow up the roster and start over?

I think we should at least wait until mid season next year, if a fire sale is what Illitch and Avilla have decided upon. Right now we won't get full value for Miggy, Verlander, Sanchez, or M-mart due to poor play or injury riddled recent history.

We could get good value for Kinsler and JD, though.

So, should the team be reset fully or partially by trading off some premium players? If yes, should they wait until next season or start this winter?

I doubt they would trade JD. Kinsler could be traded, but it would have to be somebody special like Altuve with part of the money owed Kinsler going to Houston. I know it sounds crazy but look what the tigers gave up to get Miggy. Only two of the players going the other way amounted to anything & they're average at best.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Reset vs. Reload?

Let's start with how many positions are actually locked in with good/good enough players. By my count we would have 1B, 2B, SS, RF, and DH solidified in the field. I'm going to count Verlander as solidified at the top of the rotation, and Norris as a solid 3/4. So the team is missing nearly half of their everyday fielders, more than half of a rotation, and almost an entire bullpen. The amount of needs makes reloading nearly impossible, and says we should reset.

How does age of the roster affect our choice? Are many of our solid positions young enough to still be on the team through a rebuild, or is our core all just a few years away from slowing down? Of our position players, only Iggy is under 27 (thinking a 3 year full rebuild, he'd be the only one still 30 or younger). Of our pitchers, only Norris is both good enough to project forward and under 27. Most of our core is old, and probably couldn't survive being good by the end of a rebuild. Age-wise, the team is structured for reloading.

Given the teams in our division and the AL, reloading seems like folly. Even a fully healthy team isn't going to make the playoffs right now. There's simply not enough money to buy all the needs the team has. Further, the farm system is so bereft of talent that it would be impossible to fill the holes with trades. Statistically, this is no different from deadline dealing. Teams near the top should buy as much as they can. Teams near the bottom should be selling everything that wouldn't be contributing 3 years down the line. We should absolutely be trying to sell off JV, Miggy, Kinsler, Victor, and even JD. The team would closer to a championship with a couple high draft picks over the next two years than any amount of band-aid-ing might do to.

 

[Rebbiv]

I doubt they would trade JD. Kinsler could be traded, but it would have to be somebody special like Altuve with part of the money owed Kinsler going to Houston. I know it sounds crazy but look what the tigers gave up to get Miggy. Only two of the players going the other way amounted to anything & they're average at best.

Altuve one of the worst defensive 2B. His Home/Away splits scream of home park bias.

We are already paying $6 Mil to TEX to have Kinsler. We are not going to pay more just to get rid of Kinsler to get an overvalued Altuve.

 

[hellifino]

Thanks Obama

 

[sggatecl]

I'd much rather them blow the team up and start over than sit through 3 more years of mediocre garbage with no future.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'd much rather them blow the team up and start over than sit through 3 more years of mediocre garbage with no future.

Blow up this team it'd take about 10 years.

 

[sggatecl]

Blow up this team it'd take about 10 years.

If you draft horribly, sure.

 

[Mitchrapp]

If you draft horribly, sure.

Which we do, thought that was obvious..

 

[Thumb]

Reset vs. Reload?

Let's start with how many positions are actually locked in with good/good enough players. By my count we would have 1B, 2B, SS, RF, and DH solidified in the field. I'm going to count Verlander as solidified at the top of the rotation, and Norris as a solid 3/4. So the team is missing nearly half of their everyday fielders, more than half of a rotation, and almost an entire bullpen. The amount of needs makes reloading nearly impossible, and says we should reset.

How does age of the roster affect our choice? Are many of our solid positions young enough to still be on the team through a rebuild, or is our core all just a few years away from slowing down? Of our position players, only Iggy is under 27 (thinking a 3 year full rebuild, he'd be the only one still 30 or younger). Of our pitchers, only Norris is both good enough to project forward and under 27. Most of our core is old, and probably couldn't survive being good by the end of a rebuild. Age-wise, the team is structured for reloading.

Given the teams in our division and the AL, reloading seems like folly. Even a fully healthy team isn't going to make the playoffs right now. There's simply not enough money to buy all the needs the team has. Further, the farm system is so bereft of talent that it would be impossible to fill the holes with trades. Statistically, this is no different from deadline dealing. Teams near the top should buy as much as they can. Teams near the bottom should be selling everything that wouldn't be contributing 3 years down the line. We should absolutely be trying to sell off JV, Miggy, Kinsler, Victor, and even JD. The team would closer to a championship with a couple high draft picks over the next two years than any amount of band-aid-ing might do to.

I'm gonna be honest, people need to look past the hype from that lame ass ESPN magazine article with Norris as axe man. He's looking more and more like a bullpen arm. He can't seem to consistently put together 6 inning starts. And by consistently, I mean he's never done it. Edit: I mean back to back

He's probably a nice guy, and certainly is an interesting character, but he has a long way to go before I'd even call him a solid #5 let alone a 3/4.

 

[sggatecl]

Which we do, thought that was obvious..

New GM. I'm not about to go 'Detroit Lions' mentality on the Tigers. They don't deserve it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

New GM. I'm not about to go 'Detroit Lions' mentality on the Tigers. They don't deserve it.

I understand but who do we trade where we can compete soon? Keep the guys who are worth it slash not tradable. Miggy, JV, Kinsler, JD, Iggy and Vmart, Wilson, Sanchez - all stay. Maybe a ml or two we traded before the deadline. Maybe Collins as well. That's a start. The rest you can get rid of or let go.. Blow up a team never works if you want to compete in 2-3 years.

As far as our new GM, his first move was to keep Ausmus. That doesn't excite me.

 

[swami45]

I'm gonna be honest, people need to look past the hype from that lame ass ESPN magazine article with Norris as axe man. He's looking more and more like a bullpen arm. He can't seem to consistently put together 6 inning starts. And by consistently, I mean he's never done it. Edit: I mean back to back

He's probably a nice guy, and certainly is an interesting character, but he has a long way to go before I'd even call him a solid #5 let alone a 3/4.

How many 22 year olds consistently put together solid 6 inning starts? Labeling a guy a bullpen arm that young in their career is pretty foolish in my opinion