Lions anti-homer thought processes

[mhughes0021]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2013

Brady's QB rating was 17th. Run game and defense helped the Pats win. And a shitty division

QBR is a made up ESPN stat. Stafford is 11th in PASS EPA by the way this year. Fuck the sack, penalty and run portion of that stat.

why do we fuck all the stats hes not good at? Hes horrible at escaping pressure which leads to a lot of sacks, and he cant run worth a lick....again you only use stats when they are for your argument....its kinda funny how homerish you are.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Well actually Stafford's last 5 years have averaged him a QB rating of 87.8.

Which places him on the all time list of QB Rating at #14. Now, this formula wasn't adopted till 1973, so there are several big name QBs not on the list.

1. Aaron Rodgers (31) 105.6 2005-2014
2. Peyton Manning (38) 97.9 1998-2014
3. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999
4. Philip Rivers (33) 96.8 2004-2014
5. Tony Romo (34) 96.2 2004-2014
6. Tom Brady (37) 96.1 2000-2014
7. Drew Brees (35) 95.3 2001-2014
8. Kurt Warner 93.7 1998-2009
9. Ben Roethlisberger (32) 93.4 2004-2014
10. Joe Montana+ 92.3 1979-1994
11. Matt Ryan (29) 90.8 2008-2014
12. Chad Pennington 90.1 2000-2010
13. Matt Schaub (33) 89.6 2004-2014

In case you are wondering, if you take into account Stafford's rookie year he drops to 30th all time.

Notables: Dan Marino 17th, Favre 21st, Jim Kelly 28th, Roger Staubach 32nd, Troy Aikman 48th, and Warren Moon 54th

 

[mhughes0021]

Well actually Stafford's last 5 years have averaged him a QB rating of 87.8.

Which places him on the all time list of QB Rating at #14. Now, this formula wasn't adopted till 1973, so there are several big name QBs not on the list.

1. Aaron Rodgers (31) 105.6 2005-2014
2. Peyton Manning (38) 97.9 1998-2014
3. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999
4. Philip Rivers (33) 96.8 2004-2014
5. Tony Romo (34) 96.2 2004-2014
6. Tom Brady (37) 96.1 2000-2014
7. Drew Brees (35) 95.3 2001-2014
8. Kurt Warner 93.7 1998-2009
9. Ben Roethlisberger (32) 93.4 2004-2014
10. Joe Montana+ 92.3 1979-1994
11. Matt Ryan (29) 90.8 2008-2014
12. Chad Pennington 90.1 2000-2010
13. Matt Schaub (33) 89.6 2004-2014

In case you are wondering, if you take into account Stafford's rookie year he drops to 30th all time.

Notables: Dan Marino 17th, Favre 21st, Jim Kelly 28th, Roger Staubach 32nd, Troy Aikman 48th, and Warren Moon 54th

So everyone else has to use their rookie year but you decided not to use staffords? brilliant...

Qbs nowadays should have a better qb rating than qbs 20 years ago....the game has changed that much. Something is off if staffords qb rating is continually around 16 every year and somehow hes top 14 overall.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

So everyone else has to use their rookie year but you decided not to use staffords? brilliant...

Qbs nowadays should have a better qb rating than qbs 20 years ago....the game has changed that much. Something is off if staffords qb rating is continually around 16 every year and somehow hes top 14 overall.

Without his rookie year yeah. With it he is 30th. Which is higher than many Hall of Fame QBs.

Weird stats.

 

[mhughes0021]

Stafford qb rating...not sure how this equates to 14th all time....

2014 - 23rd
2013 - 19th
2012 - 22nd
2011 - 5th
2010 - injured
2009 - 29th

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Stafford qb rating...not sure how this equates to 14th all time....

2014 - 23rd
2013 - 19th
2012 - 22nd
2011 - 5th
2010 - injured
2009 - 29th

Dunno, ask PFR.

 

[tomdalton22]

Without his rookie year yeah. With it he is 30th. Which is higher than many Hall of Fame QBs.

Weird stats.

It's no coincidence that 16 of the 32 highest QB ratings are active players (Stafford is 32nd overall and 16th among active players). It just shows how the game has changed to make it easier for QBs to have success.

 

[UMRules06]

PFF is based on game tape.

QBR takes into account sacks and runs. Total crap. QB rating is much better.

"And rushing counts. Points are points. Stafford rush skils is one of many reasons to like him more than a young Manning". -LKP

So you posted this in an earlier thread in trying to make your ridiculous case that Stafford is greater than a young Peyton Manning. Now you scoff at QBR because it takes into account running?

Troll fail as usual.

 

[mhughes0021]

"And rushing counts. Points are points. Stafford rush skils is one of many reasons to like him more than a young Manning". -LKP

So you posted this in an earlier thread in trying to make your ridiculous case that Stafford is greater than a young Peyton Manning. Now you scoff at QBR because it takes into account running?

Troll fail as usual.

Insult to trolls everywhere.

 

[tonyballs]

looks pretty accurate to me...palmer is the only one out of place and hes played in limited games.

RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
1 Peyton Manning, DEN 53.8 -0.9 -3.6 1.8 51.2 297 71.2 47.5 90.1
2 Philip Rivers, SD 56.1 1.5 -6.6 4.8 55.8 336 70.0 43.2 85.5
3 Aaron Rodgers, GB 47.3 5.7 -12.0 3.8 44.8 322 60.5 34.8 81.6
4 Eli Manning, NYG 35.5 1.1 -7.4 5.6 34.9 278 48.2 26.1 78.4
5 Tony Romo, DAL 46.5 2.0 -12.6 3.1 39.0 302 51.5 27.5 77.8
6 Tom Brady, NE 42.4 -0.5 -6.9 4.7 39.7 347 55.9 28.2 75.4
7 Andrew Luck, IND 41.5 1.0 -5.5 3.5 40.5 427 64.6 30.5 72.8
8 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 47.7 -1.1 -12.5 3.3 37.4 358 54.0 25.5 72.7
9 Drew Brees, NO 38.0 1.7 -4.1 4.0 39.5 342 50.8 23.5 72.1
10 Carson Palmer, ARI 21.6 0.9 -3.3 3.6 22.8 195 26.4 10.8 68.2
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
11 Joe Flacco, BAL 30.3 1.4 -8.2 7.5 30.9 329 43.9 17.7 67.7
12 Nick Foles, PHI 28.5 2.1 -4.4 4.7 30.8 352 41.8 13.8 63.1
13 Russell Wilson, SEA 19.5 16.5 -8.8 -1.0 26.3 296 35.0 11.4 63.0
14 Colin Kaepernick, SF 31.2 4.5 -8.9 -0.1 26.7 320 37.7 12.2 62.9
15 Jay Cutler, CHI 34.0 4.4 -10.9 3.6 31.0 373 43.4 13.7 62.4
16 Matthew Stafford, DET 34.8 -0.5 -11.6 5.7 28.3 363 40.2 11.3 60.5
17 Matt Ryan, ATL 35.0 0.8 -11.1 0.5 25.1 365 38.2 9.1 58.5
18 Brian Hoyer, CLE 28.3 -3.3 -6.4 1.1 19.7 264 27.2 6.1 57.9
19 Mike Glennon, TB 19.7 -0.5 -5.7 0.3 13.8 219 22.3 4.8 57.5
20 Andy Dalton, CIN 20.3 -0.3 -3.5 2.1 18.6 275 27.6 5.6 57.0
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
21 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 24.7 4.5 -9.9 0.9 20.2 319 30.0 4.5 54.9
22 Austin Davis, STL 27.9 -1.5 -11.6 1.1 15.9 280 26.0 3.7 54.6
23 Cam Newton, CAR 27.4 1.6 -9.9 2.4 21.5 327 30.3 4.3 54.5
24 Alex Smith, KC 23.8 3.2 -11.5 2.4 17.8 285 25.1 2.3 52.8
25 Ryan Fitzpatrick, HOU 20.6 2.3 -8.7 0.6 14.8 302 23.1 -1.0 48.9
26 Derek Carr, OAK 18.4 -0.1 -4.8 0.9 14.4 293 22.4 -1.0 48.8
27 Kirk Cousins, WSH 16.2 -0.4 -5.7 1.5 11.6 250 17.6 -2.3 46.8
28 Kyle Orton, BUF 19.8 -0.2 -10.7 -0.6 8.3 177 12.1 -2.0 46.1
29 Teddy Bridgewater, MIN 10.7 3.6 -9.9 0.6 4.9 208 8.4 -8.2 36.7
30 Geno Smith, NYJ 5.5 1.3 -8.5 0.8 -0.9 307 3.0 -21.5 27.6
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
31 Blake Bortles, JAX 1.3 1.6 -7.6 1.6 -3.1 274 -0.2 -22.0 24.8

I'll take it. And he's a better QB than Flacco, Cutler and Palmer anyways, who are ranked higher than him.

 

[Monster]

"Stafford doesn't make receivers better like other quarterbacks"

Wtf is golden tate doing right now? The dude is on pace for....1600 yards!

I'm sure there will be some lame excuses. But if any of our receivers did better elsewhere stafford would be. Chewed up.

Wait...this makes no sense. Seattle was a run first team with a QB that threw the ball to everyone. The Lions are a pass first team with a QB that likes to throw to his favorite targets. Of course Tate's numbers have jumped since last year! His targets last year were 98 through 16 games. Through only 8 this year....80. In the three prior years, his high was 67.

It seems like half of Tate's yards that he's had were YAC that he created for himself - meaning that Matt didn't throw him open, but Tate made people miss or broke tackles. Give him a more accurate QB that hits him in stride and Tate might even have more catches and more yards and more touchdowns.

Can you tell me one player that Matt has made better? Anybody? No, you can't. There is none. How about Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Big Ben, etc? You can probably think of a few for each of those players. The best QBs make WRs better. Matt has ability, but he hasn't shown it...yet.

I still like the guy, but he needs to greatly improve his accuracy and consistency. And if he can't fix those things, we're going to continue to struggle whenever he doesn't have his future HOF WR on the field and underperform with him on the field.

 

[inkfreq]

Stafford isn't making him better...he is just in a pass happy offense now. He already has 81 targets...he only averaged 83 over the past 2 seasons in Seattle.

False equivalency argument.

They are a pass happy offense because they have a QB who is good enough to win games in that offense. Teams that have sub-par QBs tend to be more run-first to protect the ball.

You can't say Stafford isn't making WRs better because the offense is pass oriented, when it wouldn't be pass oriented with a QB who wasn't capable of making it work.

If we were 2-6 and pass first, I could see the argument, but when you are winning.. it's working for a reason/

 

[mhughes0021]

False equivalency argument.

They are a pass happy offense because they have a QB who is good enough to win games in that offense. Teams that have sub-par QBs tend to be more run-first to protect the ball.

You can't say Stafford isn't making WRs better because the offense is pass oriented, when it wouldn't be pass oriented with a QB who wasn't capable of making it work.

If we were 2-6 and pass first, I could see the argument, but when you are winning.. it's working for a reason/

agreed, you cant say staff isn't making wrs better cause were pass oriented.

But, you can easily argue that its a given production will go up when his targets more than doubles. If he was producing the same with double the targets hed be one of the worst wrs in football.

And theres a lot more factual info out there to show that staff doesn't make wrs better. he made titus almost kill himself, d will. He turned the "best wr in college football history" into a nobody. Pettigrew is already a has been. ebron has sucked ass. Nate was overpaid almost the entire time he was here. If you aren't the #1 target...then staff isn't going to find you.

 

[tomdalton22]

False equivalency argument.

They are a pass happy offense because they have a QB who is good enough to win games in that offense. Teams that have sub-par QBs tend to be more run-first to protect the ball.

You can't say Stafford isn't making WRs better because the offense is pass oriented, when it wouldn't be pass oriented with a QB who wasn't capable of making it work.

If we were 2-6 and pass first, I could see the argument, but when you are winning.. it's working for a reason/

His numbers are increasing BECAUSE he is getting the ball thrown his way more often.

 

[LKP]

If Tate had good comp % and good YAC in Seattle too, then Tate made Wilson. YAC and his hands are the key. But I'd actually say Seattle's defense and running game made Wilson seem better than he actually is.

Calvin has had his best years with Stafford. Pass first with good execution is a big reason why Stafford is a good QB. And Burleson was good in 2011 but injured half the year in 2012/2013 (why he was overpaid). He produced when healthy. Young good rookie season, his insanity couldn't be stopped (to blame Stafford for that is dumb). Broyles injuries. Pettigrew productive but now we have more weapons and can use him more as a blocker. Stafford does his job well in a pass first offense. That is a very good thing for us.

 

[brewer229]

Pettgrew, burelson, CJ all had very similar stats in 2010 when Shaun hill was primary QB, when you look at YPA and YPC.

 

[brewer229]

I'll take it. And he's a better QB than Flacco, Cutler and Palmer anyways, who are ranked higher than him.

What does Stafford do that is better than The three you listed? Those are the type of guys I would compare him too. He is much more like Cutler, flacco and Palmer than he is Brees, Manning or Rodgers.

I would say watch Cutler, that is what Stafford looks like without the Honolulu blue glasses on. They are the two most similar QBs in the league.

 

[LKP]

Pettgrew, burelson, CJ all had very similar stats in 2010 when Shaun hill was primary QB, when you look at YPA and YPC.

But we attempt more because Stafford is the better QB and better on converting third downs.

 

[brewer229]

But we attempt more because Stafford is the better QB and better on converting third downs.

Yes he's better than Shaun Hill overall.

Still don't see how he makes the WR better.
Calvin would still be considered elite with out stafford.
Stafford might not of gotten an extension without CJ.

 

[LKP]

Calvin never had huge years until 2011.
Tate and Burleson produced with him.

Stafford does his job on his completion. I so hate it's gotten to the point where almost any completion now is just written off as all WR and not Stafford doing a good job. It's ridiculous. It's like you guys black out the throwing part to completions and only remember the misses.