FISA Abuse

[Spartanmack]

b/c you choose to?

There is no huge audience of fence-straddling lurkers on this forum who are reporting back to their home group on who they think won the day here. Its puny and read by the same members day after day, and no one's going to convince anyone else that they are wrong.

"the fact that the Obamas and Clintons have been proved"

No they haven't, otherwise they would have been tried and convicted by other than merely the court of RW public opinion. And unlike a couple of other previous White House occupants, they can travel to Europe w/o the probability of being arrested for being accused of committing war crimes.

But perhaps except for someone who thinks that getting the last post in, somehow means that he (or she) wins a dispute. I've seen that go on everywhere in the ether for years. Or the stall tactic, when someone waits for a few hours or in some cases the wee hours/next day, so to get the last reply in, b/c the others involved have left the now dormant or dead thread.

so you're saying it hasn't been proved that what Clinton did with her email server was illegal? She didn't break any laws in Whitewater? You haven't read anything about what she actually did, have you?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Not googling anything, my impression of the findings on Clinton's email is that it ran against the norm, but likely to to ignorance/recklessness and not a crime because of the lack of criminal intent (and no specific law against it without intent), BUT very much a thing nobody thinking they should be president should ever do (because of the extreme stupidity and recklessness.)

 

[Gulo Blue]

My gut says that if Clinton did anything that should land her in serious legal trouble, it's related to the hijacking of the Dems primary process. And since Sanders won't go after her, she got away with it. Or maybe we just don't have the laws to cover something we'd likely agree on as a nation there.

 

[tinselwolverine]

My gut says that if Clinton did anything that should land her in serious legal trouble, it's related to the hijacking of the Dems primary process. And since Sanders won't go after her, she got away with it. Or maybe we just don't have the laws to cover something we'd likely agree on as a nation there.

I think legally the Democrat party and the DNC its own self governing private organization. It's probably like rigging the presidential nomination of the Kiwanis Club, if the Kiwanis Club was a political party.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think legally the Democrat party and the DNC its own self governing private organization. It's probably like rigging the presidential nomination of the Kiwanis Club, if the Kiwanis Club was a political party.

My *gut* says it's a bigger legal deal than that. Maybe there's nothing special about the two parties that share power, but it sure feels like they have special status that should come with responsibility.

 

[tinselwolverine]

My *gut* says it's a bigger legal deal than that. Maybe there's nothing special about the two parties that share power, but it sure feels like they have special status that should come with responsibility.

Yeah.

Their not very special status one may view them as having, or the opinion of the responsibility that one may view them as having, or how one may feel about it has shit to do with the law.

If tomorrow every Republican woke up and thought "fuck this shit, I'm becoming Libertarian (which I think every Republican should)" and every Democrat woke up and thought "fuck this shit, I'm joining the Green Party (which I think every Democrat should) that could happen with no action by the government except for fulfilling the change of registration requests for every voter regarding every registrar of voters in every county in every state.

Then both the Republicans and the Democrats would be yesterday's news.

So to back to the beginning dirty tricks to fuck Bernie Sanders out of the Democrat nomination will not be seen by anyone as a crime that has the power and authority to prosecute it as such.

 

[turok]

so you're saying it hasn't been proved that what Clinton did with her email server was illegal? She didn't break any laws in Whitewater? You haven't read anything about what she actually did, have you?

You included Obama, and there were more "Bengazis" during the Shrub's term, which get conveniently fogotten. What aboiut the 4 troops who mysteriously died in Niger, and the 1000 plus young children of illegals seized and can't be accounted for under Trump? Or the 4000+ Americans who needlessly perished in Puerto Rico, ala the Katrina debacle?

Posting about illegal email servers:

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yeah.

Their not very special status one may view them as having, or the opinion of the responsibility that one may view them as having, or how one may feel about it has shit to do with the law.

If tomorrow every Republican woke up and thought "fuck this shit, I'm becoming Libertarian (which I think every Republican should)" and every Democrat woke up and thought "fuck this shit, I'm joining the Green Party (which I think every Democrat should) that could happen with no action by the government except for fulfilling the change of registration requests for every voter regarding every registrar of voters in every county in every state.

Then both the Republicans and the Democrats would be yesterday's news.

So to back to the beginning dirty tricks to fuck Bernie Sanders out of the Democrat nomination will not be seen by anyone as a crime that has the power and authority to prosecute it as such.

What about fraud? It feels like democrat donors were tricked into funding a system that wasn't doing what they were told it did.

 

[Michchamp]

What about fraud? It feels like democrat donors were tricked into funding a system that wasn't doing what they were told it did.

those donors weren't billionaires though, so they don't matter.

 

[tinselwolverine]

those donors weren't billionaires though, so they don't matter.

That's not true.

A lot of Democrat donors are billionaires.

But they all donated to Hillary, who won the nomination.

So what would be their complaint?

 

[tinselwolverine]

What about fraud? It feels like democrat donors were tricked into funding a system that wasn't doing what they were told it did.

I guess if any voter feels they were criminally defrauded, they could file a criminal complaint to the Justice Department.

Or they could fine a civil complaint in court.

But I don't think that's going to happen.

I don't think that the DOJ would feel it was its purview to launch a criminal investigation into this on its own volition.

 

[Spartanmack]

You included Obama, and there were more "Bengazis" during the Shrub's term, which get conveniently fogotten. What aboiut the 4 troops who mysteriously died in Niger, and the 1000 plus young children of illegals seized and can't be accounted for under Trump? Or the 4000+ Americans who needlessly perished in Puerto Rico, ala the Katrina debacle?

Posting about illegal email servers:

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html

no laws were broken during fast and furious? there were not scandals covered up? Is the standard now that the President just needs to not break the law? There weren't more Benghazi's during Bush's administration there's really only one Benghazi - are you thinking of the Embassy bombings that happened during Clinton's admin.

As for the 1,000+ kids seized and lost, those separations are THE LAW. There are laws that require unaccompanied children to be placed into temporary care in 20 days or something like that. I believe it was Clinton that signed that into law. Then Obama signed a law that extended the requirement to accompanied children. And those pictures of kids in cages everyone is using to smear Trump were taken in 2014, during Barry's second term in case you were unaware. When it comes out that these kids are actually lost and laws were broken or gross negligence is found, then we can talk about it who gets the blame for it - for now, I don't think enough is known about it. As for the Puerto Rico thing, I'm not blaming anyone for the weather.

 

[Spartanmack]

That's not true.

A lot of Democrat donors are billionaires.

But they all donated to Hillary, who won the nomination.

So what would be their complaint?

this is also not true. David Geffen, Leo Hindery and Steve Markoff all endorsed Sanders and he has multimillionaires up the wazoo endorsing him.

 

[tinselwolverine]

this is also not true. David Geffen, Leo Hindery and Steve Markoff all endorsed Sanders and he has multimillionaires up the wazoo endorsing him.

Cool.

I guess they can all make a complaint if they wanna.

I'm a fan of David Geffen.

Great promoter/developer of musical talent.

Plus he's the most famous gay dude ever to go straight for Cher.

 

[Spartanmack]

Cool.

I guess they can all make a complaint if they wanna.

I'm a fan of David Geffen.

Great promoter/developer of musical talent.

Plus he's the most famous gay dude ever to go straight for Cher.

complain to who? you're the moderator. I guess they're just out of luck - they have to live with the fact that they're the Rodney Dangerfields of Sanders supporters.

 

[tinselwolverine]

complain to who? you're the moderator. I guess they're just out of luck - they have to live with the fact that they're the Rodney Dangerfields of Sanders supporters.

Ha, ha.

Like I said in #211, there's the Justice Department or civil court.

But I don't think either is gonna happen.

David Geffen and all them other million-ayuhs and billion-ayuhs. have better things to do.

 

[Michchamp]

...

As for the 1,000+ kids seized and lost, those separations are THE LAW. There are laws that require unaccompanied children to be placed into temporary care in 20 days or something like that. I believe it was Clinton that signed that into law. Then Obama signed a law that extended the requirement to accompanied children. ....

I've read in a couple of different outlets (Time, Huffpo, at least) that separating kids from their parents is a new Trump policy just put in place by his administration.

what's the basis for your belief here?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I saw something about this applying to legal asylum seekers now.

 

[Michchamp]

NYT reported direct quotes from Sessions about this being a new policy and there being tougher "penalties" for people who cross the border with kids.

tough love is the best love, right? a few hundred kids get separated from their parents, and in the chaos of getting returned to unstable, violent nations* don't end up seeing them again for months, years, or maybe ever...

once word gets out of some bad examples, they'll stop coming then, right? Right! Just like Jesus would've done if he was in charge of immigration policy.

*I'm not blaming those nations for their situation; the violence and disorder stems from our own intentionally bad "War on Drugs" or us overthrowing their democratically elected leaders because reasons.

 

[Spartanmack]

Ha, ha.

Like I said in #211, there's the Justice Department or civil court.

But I don't think either is gonna happen.

David Geffen and all them other million-ayuhs and billion-ayuhs. have better things to do.

oh, I thought you meant they could make a complaint about not being recognized on DSF as billionaires for Bernie.