Juwan Out

[tinselwolverine]

How the F do I get from this page, page 1, to the next page?

This new format sucks.

 

[tinselwolverine]

How the F do I get from this page, page 1, to the next page?

This new format sucks.

Oh.
I guess I’m already at the next page.

Never mind.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Ed Martin had nothing to do with Juwan, Jimmy, or Ray. Jalen knew him but was not implicated in the scandal after being thoroughly investigated. How could anyone know this? Not like the internet exists with easy access to the information or anything.

Our Spartan friend SpartanMack loves trolling our board, and and I ain’t gonna lie - his troll posts are often pretty funny, as are gotime909’s and some of the others.

The only thing I know for sure is that, according to public record, Ed Martin is dead.

So fuck him.

 

[Michchamp]

LOL, how can you "debunk" an opinion?

 

[Spartanmack]

Per usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Juwan Howard Is Taking Over At Michigan, But His Recruiting Days Began By Bringing Fab Five Together

Juwan Howard realizes he has a lot to prove in his first head coaching job. But Howard, who took over at Michigan last week and was a member of the famed Fab Five recruiting class, might have built some equity in recruiting when he helped bring his former teammates together nearly 30 years ago.

www.forbes.com

I see you're taking a page out of MC's book - pasting links to articles that don't prove or even support what you've claimed or disprove anything I've said but pretending they do. Thanks for letting me know what Jimmy King had to say - I guess that means Ed Martin paying Webber was only for the point shaving and not to get him to go to uofm because that was all Juwan. Well done.

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, how can you "debunk" an opinion?

By showing the facts which prove it's based on garbage. It's not hard.

 

[thewolverines24]

I see you're taking a page out of MC's book - pasting links to articles that don't prove or even support what you've claimed or disprove anything I've said but pretending they do. Thanks for letting me know what Jimmy King had to say - I guess that means Ed Martin paying Webber was only for the point shaving and not to get him to go to uofm because that was all Juwan. Well done.

The age old non-sense that Ed Martin only drove players to Michigan is great fiction for rivals. Must be why he so strongly encouraged Howard Eisley to go to Boston College and Voshon Lenard to Minnesota. It's almost like Ed Martin only cared about being in the inner circle of future pros.

Of course you can't understand the nuance of Juwan being so influential on making the Fab Five happen. It was all Ed Martin, a person Juwan, Jimmy, and Ray never met before they were student-athletes at UM, that made it happen.

 

[Spartanmack]

The age old non-sense that Ed Martin only drove players to Michigan is great fiction for rivals. Must be why he so strongly encouraged Howard Eisley to go to Boston College and Voshon Lenard to Minnesota. It's almost like Ed Martin only cared about being in the inner circle of future pros.

Of course you can't understand the nuance of Juwan being so influential on making the Fab Five happen. It was all Ed Martin, a person Juwan, Jimmy, and Ray never met before they were student-athletes at UM, that made it happen.

Nice deflection. I’ve never heard anyone say Ed Martin only drove players to uofm and I’ve certainly never said that myself. Even if I did, that wouldn’t disprove anything I’ve said. But given your extremely weak position, it’s not at all surprising that you’re trying to make this about something else.

As far as Howard is concerned, maybe he was influential in getting King and the other guy no one remembers but if Martin didn’t get Webber there, there is no Fab 5 and without Webber, Rose probably goes to Syracuse. Then it’s just Howard and 2 guys even you would have to check google for their names.

I get it, it sounds much better to give Howard all this credit than admitting the truth that Webber should have been barred from the NCAA because he took money from Ed Martin to go to uofm and he probably was involved in point shaving. But only people like you and MC believe it. Even if Webber came out an admitted the whole thing, you’d be on here “proving” how it’s different when it happens at uofm and everyone else needs to clean house when uofm is one of the dirtiest and most corrupt programs and institutions in college athletics.

 

[thewolverines24]

Yeah, I have to Google Jimmy King and Ray Jackson after I've mentioned them by name hundreds of times on this board. Super tough to remember two of my favorite players from my childhood.

What is this Webber point shaving crap? Message board rumors taken as fact? Why would Webber be shaving points when he was getting plenty of money from Ed for just being Chris Webber? Doesn't make any sense.

And I'll take Jimmy King's word on Howard bringing the group together instead of them all choosing different schools over someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Fab Five other than whining about Ed paying C-Webb.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah, I have to Google Jimmy King and Ray Jackson after I've mentioned them by name hundreds of times on this board. Super tough to remember two of my favorite players from my childhood.

What is this Webber point shaving crap? Message board rumors taken as fact? Why would Webber be shaving points when he was getting plenty of money from Ed for just being Chris Webber? Doesn't make any sense.

And I'll take Jimmy King's word on Howard bringing the group together instead of them all choosing different schools over someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Fab Five other than whining about Ed paying C-Webb.

You're not particularly bright, are you? I said you'd have to google their names IF Ed Martin didn't pay Webber to go to uofm because there would be no Fab 5 without Webber and Rose - they'd just be another ordinary run of the mill mediocre uofm team.

hmmm, why would he be shaving points when Ed Martin had paid him 10s of thousands of dollars to shave points? That's a real head scratcher because it's not like Ed Martin could then ruin his career in college and the NBA or anything like that. Of course, Ed Martin who ran a massive illegal bookie business probably only gave him that money because Ed Martin loved uofm (and Chris Webber).

Personally, I'll take Jalen Rose's word at the time when he said he would have gone to Syracuse if Webber hadn't gone to uofm (because Ed Martin paid him to go to uofm) over Jimmy King blowing smoke up Juwan's rear end 20+ years later.

 

[thewolverines24]

You're not particularly bright, are you? I said you'd have to google their names IF Ed Martin didn't pay Webber to go to uofm because there would be no Fab 5 without Webber and Rose - they'd just be another ordinary run of the mill mediocre uofm team.

hmmm, why would he be shaving points when Ed Martin had paid him 10s of thousands of dollars to shave points? That's a real head scratcher because it's not like Ed Martin could then ruin his career in college and the NBA or anything like that. Of course, Ed Martin who ran a massive illegal bookie business probably only gave him that money because Ed Martin loved uofm (and Chris Webber).

Personally, I'll take Jalen Rose's word at the time when he said he would have gone to Syracuse if Webber hadn't gone to uofm (because Ed Martin paid him to go to uofm) over Jimmy King blowing smoke up Juwan's rear end 20+ years later.

Yes, Jalen said that him and C-Webb viewed themselves as a package deal since they were in 8th grade. However, Juwan was the first to sign with Michigan and make the major push to get Jimmy, Ray, and then Jalen and Chris all to UM. That is why Juwan is so influential in getting the Fab Five together. Jalen and Chris were heavily leaning towards other schools, but Juwan calling all of the other four guys consistently and selling them on Michigan was a huge deal.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hmmm, what was more influential - Juwan Howard nagging him on the phone or Ed Martin paying him a two hundred and eighty grand? That's a tough one but your argument is pretty persuasive so I've changed my view - it was probably Juwan Howard.

For the record, Rose and Webber did NOT consider themselves a package deal - for Webber it came down to dook, MSU and uofm. Rose has said multiple times he wasn't recruited by dook and he wasn't considering MSU. If Webber went to either of those schools, Rose has said he was going to Syracuse.

 

[Mitchrapp]

How the F do I get from this page, page 1, to the next page?

This new format sucks.

Hit the two or where it says next. Same as old board.. I'm thinking you're not so smart..

 

[byco42]

Hmmm, what was more influential - Juwan Howard nagging him on the phone or Ed Martin paying him a two hundred and eighty grand? That's a tough one but your argument is pretty persuasive so I've changed my view - it was probably Juwan Howard.

For the record, Rose and Webber did NOT consider themselves a package deal - for Webber it came down to dook, MSU and uofm. Rose has said multiple times he wasn't recruited by dook and he wasn't considering MSU. If Webber went to either of those schools, Rose has said he was going to Syracuse.

I blame Mateen Cleeves (sic) for not driving that Explorer back to Ann Arbor. In fact, I expect that Mateen was a mole assigned by Izzo to dig up the dirt and those strippers, drugs, alcohol were "arranged" by Izzo through Martin (who was also a Spartan mole with the intent of destroying Michigan basketball) and Webber was going to go to MSU until he discovered Izzo's subterfuge so he went to Michigan and took the money from Martin so that he didn't blow his cover (counter-insurgency and all that) and Howard, Rose, Jackson, and King were all forced to go to Michigan to promote that "Fab Five" crap to numb the nation into a frenzy over college basketball -- a scheme that was originated by Tavistock (a UK Social-Engineering outfit that also invented the Beatles ["Fab Four," see what I'm talking about?] -- there are no coincidences said FDR) and wouldn't you know it -- guess what song was playing when that Explorer rolled?

"Drive My Car" ... you can't make this stuff up.

 

[Spartanmack]

I blame Mateen Cleeves (sic) for not driving that Explorer back to Ann Arbor. In fact, I expect that Mateen was a mole assigned by Izzo to dig up the dirt and those strippers, drugs, alcohol were "arranged" by Izzo through Martin (who was also a Spartan mole with the intent of destroying Michigan basketball) and Webber was going to go to MSU until he discovered Izzo's subterfuge so he went to Michigan and took the money from Martin so that he didn't blow his cover (counter-insurgency and all that) and Howard, Rose, Jackson, and King were all forced to go to Michigan to promote that "Fab Five" crap to numb the nation into a frenzy over college basketball -- a scheme that was originated by Tavistock (a UK Social-Engineering outfit that also invented the Beatles ["Fab Four," see what I'm talking about?] -- there are no coincidences said FDR) and wouldn't you know it -- guess what song was playing when that Explorer rolled?

"Drive My Car" ... you can't make this stuff up.

It's an interesting theory, definitely more plausible than thewolverines24's obvious nonsense but I think you can make this stuff up. I think Tinsel could too. I could probably come up with something close to it. I think only thewolverines24 and the people that write the silly articles he falls for would probably struggle with it. But since it wasn't made up, I'm looking forward to seeing what Tavistock comes up with for the Fab Six - if it's every 30 years or so we should be finding out soon.

AND, since you bring it up, it bears pointing out that despite the broken back he suffered in that wreck, Mateen was still able to accomplish something the Fab Five never could by winning the National Championship (and finishing college).

and finally, while I disagree with FDR that there are NO coincidences - it's definitely true that his creation/expansion of the welfare state and collapse of the American family and thus the country is not a coincidence.

 

[byco42]

It's an interesting theory, definitely more plausible than thewolverines24's obvious nonsense but I think you can make this stuff up. I think Tinsel could too. I could probably come up with something close to it. I think only thewolverines24 and the people that write the silly articles he falls for would probably struggle with it. But since it wasn't made up, I'm looking forward to seeing what Tavistock comes up with for the Fab Six - if it's every 30 years or so we should be finding out soon.

AND, since you bring it up, it bears pointing out that despite the broken back he suffered in that wreck, Mateen was still able to accomplish something the Fab Five never could by winning the National Championship (and finishing college).

and finally, while I disagree with FDR that there are NO coincidences - it's definitely true that his creation/expansion of the welfare state and collapse of the American family and thus the country is not a coincidence.

1. Fab Six. Interesting name that the esoteric lot would love to spring on us.
2. Cleaves and that 2000 MSU team had sand for certain, which is part of the MSU basketball ethos that I admire.
3. Here's the actual FDR quote: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it does, you can bet it was planned that way." Which tells me that we are mere pawn-enablers in the scheme designed to shear us, sell our wool, and stick us back in the pen to grow a new coat.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I blame Mateen Cleeves (sic) for not driving that Explorer back to Ann Arbor. In fact, I expect that Mateen was a mole assigned by Izzo to dig up the dirt and those strippers, drugs, alcohol were "arranged" by Izzo through Martin (who was also a Spartan mole with the intent of destroying Michigan basketball) and Webber was going to go to MSU until he discovered Izzo's subterfuge so he went to Michigan and took the money from Martin so that he didn't blow his cover (counter-insurgency and all that) and Howard, Rose, Jackson, and King were all forced to go to Michigan to promote that "Fab Five" crap to numb the nation into a frenzy over college basketball -- a scheme that was originated by Tavistock (a UK Social-Engineering outfit that also invented the Beatles ["Fab Four," see what I'm talking about?] -- there are no coincidences said FDR) and wouldn't you know it -- guess what song was playing when that Explorer rolled?

"Drive My Car" ... you can't make this stuff up.

There’s a movie in the works, Midas Man, about Brian Epstein and the Beatles. Jay Leno plays Ed Sullivan. In the movie, Epstein changes the time space continuum and the trajectory of the Beatles lives that almost everyone forgets that they ever existed.

The most unbelievable thing about the movie was that Himesh Patel could ever get a hottie like Lilly James to notice him.

Wait a minute - that was a different movie. That was a movie that came out on a different day, like yesterday. I forget the name of that movie.

 

[byco42]

There’s a movie in the works, Midas Man, about Brian Epstein and the Beatles. Jay Leno plays Ed Sullivan. In the movie, Epstein changes the time space continuum and the trajectory of the Beatles lives that almost everyone forgets that they ever existed.

The most unbelievable thing about the movie was that Himesh Patel could ever get a hottie like Lilly James to notice him.

Wait a minute - that was a different movie. That was a movie that came out on a different day, like yesterday. I forget the name of that movie.

I don't remember the name either: "Things We Said Today?" Maybe I'm Amazed that I can't remember. Wait. Billy wrote and sang that one. With one eye. Did you know that Billy has a glass eye? Whatever: Paul was buried going on four years by then.

Anyway: One scene that I have watched a lot is the initial recording session with the studio right next to the railroad tracks. After he plays "She Loves You" the "engineer" (get it? Movies are so esoteric) asks "got any more songs?"

"One or two."

And if this Epstein also committed suicide, Jay Leno IS Ed Sullivan. EDIT: Ed was in on the Beatles' Ruse from the very first appearance.

This is quite a diversion from Juwan's dismissal as Michigan's basketball coach ( and he was definitely NOT "the cute one.")

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don't remember the name either: "Things We Said Today?" Maybe I'm Amazed that I can't remember. Wait. Billy wrote and sang that one. With one eye. Did you know that Billy has a glass eye? Whatever: Paul was buried going on four years by then.

Anyway: One scene that I have watched a lot is the initial recording session with the studio right next to the railroad tracks. After he plays "She Loves You" the "engineer" (get it? Movies are so esoteric) asks "got any more songs?"

"One or two."

And if this Epstein also committed suicide, Jay Leno IS Ed Sullivan. EDIT: Ed was in on the Beatles' Ruse from the very first appearance.

This is quite a diversion from Juwan's dismissal as Michigan's basketball coach ( and he was definitely NOT "the cute one.")

Maybe.

Who knows.

This scene always makes me cry.

 

[byco42]

Maybe.

Who knows.

This scene always makes me cry.

John would have been a lot better off, it appears, had he never been compelled to be a pawn -- a sacrifice -- to the Movers and Shakers of the world.

He wouldn't have needed "Help!"

And, get this, everyone thinks that that guy in the movie wrote all those Beatles' songs, just the way that we were led to believe that The Beatles wrote all their songs from 1963-1970, or even played on them.

I no longer believe that, and I Should Have Known Better a lot sooner than a few years ago.