Racial Bias

[Gulo Blue]

Smooth how you completely mischaracterize my posts. That's clearly not what I'm doing.

And if the range is 3-5 for one, but 3-7 for another because of criminal history, this study, which looks at the low end of the range only, treats them the same when clearly they're not.

This example of how it could work that you made up, even if it reflected a real case, it wouldn't be the average case.

It might not even be a good example case. I don't see any cases where upper limits move and lower limits don't.

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.stephenpettigrew.com/art...w-2017-psq.pdf

How long you have to wait to vote. Add it to the list.

 

[Michchamp]

https://www.stephenpettigrew.com/art...w-2017-psq.pdf

How long you have to wait to vote. Add it to the list.

Hey maybe if in addition to posting studies that show evidence of bias, you can post actual examples of bias?

Like on a weekly basis - if not more frequently - I read stories of a cop or cops getting caught sending racist messages around, being members of a racist group, or worse, and not getting punished, but protected by their departments or agencies.

Here's one: a white Louisiana state trooper who displayed a Confederate flag in his office and dropped n-words at work held the #2 position in the state police until he retired, and the La State police are being investigated by the DOJ for a continuous pattern of racist behavior both at work, and in their arrests, and use of violence or excessive force against African American motorists, some of whom have been beaten to death and covered up

Then at the end of the year, we can say "America is not a racist country, except for all these police departments who knowingly keep actual racist cops on their payrolls."

 

[Michchamp]

Here's another example of actual bias: a dozen Torrance, CA officers under investigation for sending racist, homophobic, and religious bigoted messages and emails to eachother (link).

real world effects:

While no officers currently face criminal charges in direct relation to the text messages, the racist exchanges have led to the dismissal of at least 85 criminal cases involving the officers implicated in the scandal. County prosecutors had tossed 35 felony cases as of mid-November, and the Torrance city attorney?s office has dismissed an additional 50, officials said.

In total, the officers were listed as potential witnesses in nearly 1,400 cases in the last decade, according to district attorney?s records The Times obtained through a public records request. The officers did not necessarily testify in each case, so it?s unclear how many of those cases could be affected.​

But I'm sure they can turn off the racism and be professionals
in person. Just like that one dumb movie that won a fucking Oscar for some reason, a few years ago. except for here, or in the dozens of other cases they're investigating for excessive force:

Two of the officers under investigation as part of the scandal ? Anthony Chavez and Matthew Concannon ? are also under investigation for the controversial 2018 slaying of Christopher DeAndre Mitchell, a Black car theft suspect they fatally shot while he was holding an air rifle. Chavez and Concannon were cleared of wrongdoing by former Dist. Atty. Jackie Lacey, but the case is one of several that Gasc?n has hired a special prosecutor to review for possible criminal charges.​

or the other time a couple of the officers spray painted a swastika in someone's car. Just good old fashioned fun. Let the boys blow off some steam and be Nazis.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Here's another example of actual bias: a dozen Torrance, CA officers under investigation for sending racist, homophobic, and religious bigoted messages and emails to eachother (link).

real world effects:

While no officers currently face criminal charges in direct relation to the text messages, the racist exchanges have led to the dismissal of at least 85 criminal cases involving the officers implicated in the scandal. County prosecutors had tossed 35 felony cases as of mid-November, and the Torrance city attorney?s office has dismissed an additional 50, officials said.

In total, the officers were listed as potential witnesses in nearly 1,400 cases in the last decade, according to district attorney?s records The Times obtained through a public records request. The officers did not necessarily testify in each case, so it?s unclear how many of those cases could be affected.​

But I'm sure they can turn off the racism and be professionals
in person. Just like that one dumb movie that won a fucking Oscar for some reason, a few years ago. except for here, or in the dozens of other cases they're investigating for excessive force:

Two of the officers under investigation as part of the scandal ? Anthony Chavez and Matthew Concannon ? are also under investigation for the controversial 2018 slaying of Christopher DeAndre Mitchell, a Black car theft suspect they fatally shot while he was holding an air rifle. Chavez and Concannon were cleared of wrongdoing by former Dist. Atty. Jackie Lacey, but the case is one of several that Gasc?n has hired a special prosecutor to review for possible criminal charges.​

or the other time a couple of the officers spray painted a swastika in someone's car. Just good old fashioned fun. Let the boys blow off some steam and be Nazis.

Yeah, none of this is good.

For the record, Jackie Lacey brought criminal charges against over 200 law enforcement officers as the LA County DA; in his career as a DA wherever he?s been, Gasc?n has brought zero.

In the instances where Lacey chose not to bring charges, the unlikelihood of conviction was the deciding factor - the DA takes that into account in every situation.

All this said, these events are quite in the news here, and they?ve caused me to come up with some guidelines for assholes and cops:

If you?re an asshole, don?t be a cop.

If you?re going to be a cop, don?t be an asshole.

If you?re a cop and an asshole, don?t do the things an asshole does, and do the things someone who isn?t an asshole does instead - and keep the things that make you an asshole to yourself.

 

[Michchamp]

Yeah, none of this is good.

For the record, Jackie Lacey brought criminal charges against over 200 law enforcement officers as the LA Country DA; in his career as a DA wherever he?s been, Gasc?n has brought zero.

In the instances where Lacey chose not to bring charges, the unlikelihood of conviction was the deciding factor - the DA takes that into account in every situation.

All this said, these events are quite in the news here, and they?ve caused me to come up with some guidelines for assholes and cops:

If you?re an asshole, don?t be a cop.

If you?re going to be a cop, don?t be an asshole.

If you?re a cop and an asshole, don?t do the things an asshole does, and do the things someone who isn?t an asshole does instead - and keep the things that make you an asshole to yourself.

that seems reasonable... maybe it might work in another country that doesn't have a lot of Americans living there and becoming cops.

Hey, what's your take on that movie I mentioned? It sucked, right?

 

[tinselwolverine]

that seems reasonable... maybe it might work in another country that doesn't have a lot of Americans living there and becoming cops.

Hey, what's your take on that movie I mentioned? It sucked, right?

Ha! Good one.

I don?t know how LA County got changed to LA country.

Maybe I made the mistake myself or maybe it was auto correct.

With a population of over 10 million, LA County is by far the largest country in the United States, twice the size of Cook County (Chicago - you know that but maybe not everyone does) and more populated than over 100 countries.

But it?s not it?s own country.

I?ve been trying to figure out what movie you?re talking about.

 

[Michchamp]

I actually didn't notice the country typo when I made the point above.

I think America has more than it's fair share of assholes, and they often become cops because then they get to be assholes, and pretend their "serving the public"... like that makes being an asshole ok.

i think the movie was called crash. I remember it shared the title with an earlier movie about people who had a sexual fetish involving car crashes. I think James Spader was in the sex one. I saw both. they both sucked.

 

[Michchamp]

yeah, i was right. from imdb:

Crash (2004) - IMDb
Search domain m.imdb.comhttps://m.imdb.com ? title ? tt0375679
Crash: Directed by Paul Haggis. With Karina Arroyave, Dato Bakhtadze, Sandra Bullock, Don Cheadle. Los Angeles citizens with vastly separate lives collide in interweaving stories of race, loss and redemption.

vs.

Crash (1996) - IMDb
Search domain m.imdb.comhttps://m.imdb.com ? title ? tt0115964
Crash: Directed by David Cronenberg. With James Spader, Holly Hunter, Elias Koteas, Deborah Kara Unger. After getting into a serious car accident, a TV director discovers an underground sub-culture of scarred, omnisexual car-crash victims who use car accidents and the raw sexual energy they produce to try to rejuvenate his sex life with his wife

 

[Spartanmack]

I actually didn't notice the country typo when I made the point above.

I think America has more than it's fair share of assholes, and they often become cops because then they get to be assholes, and pretend their "serving the public"... like that makes being an asshole ok.

i think the movie was called crash. I remember it shared the title with an earlier movie about people who had a sexual fetish involving car crashes. I think James Spader was in the sex one. I saw both. they both sucked.

Finally! I'm sure others have been wondering, as I have, what your thoughts are regarding police in America.

 

[Michchamp]

Here's a couple more examples of actual systemic racism in America:

Rutherford Co., TN locks up African American children at far disproportionate rates - including for non-existent crimes, ie the authorities just made things up. The only juvenile court judge in the county is white, and had a background in divinity from shitty Tennessee schools, before getting her JD from a shitty Tennessee law school. Link. The rest of the article is even worse than the part I summarized, and the statewide rates of incarceration for black children is way out of line based on state population and national rates.

 

[Michchamp]

Finally! I'm sure others have been wondering, as I have, what your thoughts are regarding police in America.

Then you came to the right place, asshole! :cheers:

 

[Michchamp]

Would it be an example of systemic racism if a city had a longtime deputy police chief who was a Nazi?

Maybe spartanmack and zyxt would disagree with me, that being a Nazi is inherently racist... after all... Hitler did a lot of good things for Germany too, right?

A Washington mayor is calling for the resignation of an assistant police chief who displayed a Nazi rank insignia on his office door for two weeks, multiple news outlets reported.
...
An investigation into Kammerzell by the city of Kent found he also made jokes about the Holocaust and referred to himself as an ?Obergruppenfuhrer,? which translates to a senior group leader in Adolf Hitler?s Third Reich, the Kent Reporter reported.
​

I've heard the joke before (from racists):

He reportedly also joked that his grandfather died in the Holocaust ? by falling drunk out of a Nazi camp guard tower. (link)
...
Kammerzell reportedly once shaved his facial hair into a Hitler-like mustache and was photographed with city officials, including Mayor Ralph, at a 2019 city Octoberfest celebration dressed in lederhosen and giving what looked to be a stiff-armed Nazi salute. Kammerzell said he may have been waving to the crowd.​

This guy was on the force for 27 years!

 

[zyxt9]

Would it be an example of systemic racism if a city had a longtime deputy police chief who was a Nazi?

Maybe spartanmack and zyxt would disagree with me, that being a Nazi is inherently racist... after all... Hitler did a lot of good things for Germany too, right?

A Washington mayor is calling for the resignation of an assistant police chief who displayed a Nazi rank insignia on his office door for two weeks, multiple news outlets reported.
...
An investigation into Kammerzell by the city of Kent found he also made jokes about the Holocaust and referred to himself as an ?Obergruppenfuhrer,? which translates to a senior group leader in Adolf Hitler?s Third Reich, the Kent Reporter reported.
​

I've heard the joke before (from racists):

He reportedly also joked that his grandfather died in the Holocaust ? by falling drunk out of a Nazi camp guard tower. (link)
...
Kammerzell reportedly once shaved his facial hair into a Hitler-like mustache and was photographed with city officials, including Mayor Ralph, at a 2019 city Octoberfest celebration dressed in lederhosen and giving what looked to be a stiff-armed Nazi salute. Kammerzell said he may have been waving to the crowd.​

This guy was on the force for 27 years!

You know damn well I am not a supporter of Nazis in any way shape or form.This is a line that has been crossed. I will not be labeled a Nazi sympathizer, supporter, or in any other way remotely associated or equated to being a Nazi.

My family is so anti-Nazi we do not go into the German Pavillion at Epcot, buy German cars or other products (not knowingly at least, fully admit it is impossible to know origins of every component in things today), and I do not even drink German beer or eat Bavarian pretzels. Yes, I recognize the Nazis have not been in power in Germany for nearing a century, but that is where they were empowered and what they did to members of the family are still remembered.

It is impossible to find any post I have ever made that shows I support Nazis. Do I share loosely similar thoughts in terms of being anti-illlegal immigration? Yes, but unlike Nazis who would prefer them killed or at a minimum deported, I have repeatedly advocated for developing better ways to make them legal citizens. That is a drastically different way of viewing the situation, you cannot justify attempting to form that as an equitable ideology. Whatever you might think of me, how you can label me as a Nazi is a falsehood that will not go unchallenged.

 

[Michchamp]

I just learned on wikipedia that on this day in 2013, the state of Mississippi finally certified the 13th Amendment, outlawing slavery.

Maybe the leaders of that state from 1865 (when the 13th was ratified) to 2013 were a little biased? and therefore pursued policies in policing, voting, schooling and all aspects of government that were biased toward African Americans?

But I'm sure all is good now. Practically no one alive in 2013 is still alive and involved in public life now, right?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I just learned on wikipedia that on this day in 2013, the state of Mississippi finally certified the 13th Amendment, outlawing slavery.

Maybe the leaders of that state from 1865 (when the 13th was ratified) to 2013 were a little biased? and therefore pursued policies in policing, voting, schooling and all aspects of government that were biased toward African Americans?

But I'm sure all is good now. Practically no one alive in 2013 is still alive and involved in public life now, right?

I'm happy to see this thread getting bumped in 2023.

 

[tomdalton22]

I just learned on wikipedia that on this day in 2013, the state of Mississippi finally certified the 13th Amendment, outlawing slavery.

Maybe the leaders of that state from 1865 (when the 13th was ratified) to 2013 were a little biased? and therefore pursued policies in policing, voting, schooling and all aspects of government that were biased toward African Americans?

But I'm sure all is good now. Practically no one alive in 2013 is still alive and involved in public life now, right?

I wonder what all of those slaves that were freed in 2013 are doing today?

 

[Spartanmack]

I just learned on wikipedia that on this day in 2013, the state of Mississippi finally certified the 13th Amendment, outlawing slavery.

Maybe the leaders of that state from 1865 (when the 13th was ratified) to 2013 were a little biased? and therefore pursued policies in policing, voting, schooling and all aspects of government that were biased toward African Americans?

But I'm sure all is good now. Practically no one alive in 2013 is still alive and involved in public life now, right?

This may come as a surprise to people who get their history from the likes of the NYT, Ward Churchill, Howard Zinn, etc but the state of Mississippi's Governor, Lt Governor, SOS, AG, State Senate and House were solidly blue from 1878 through 1991 when a Republican Governor was elected. The other those offices and houses of Congress were still solid blue until 2000 or later. The state senate and house flipped to Republican majorities in 2011 & 2012, respectively.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Amendment was certified the following year - the Dems were going to get around to it eventually. Please, tell us more about the "big switch" and the "southern strategy" and how the Republican party is now the party of racism. Anyone who believes this garbage is a dope, and in mc's case, also a racist.

Edit: national offices are pretty similar - solid Dem until Thad Cochran won a senate seat in 1978, the other senate seat flipped in '89. Their Reps flipped Red briefly in the late 90s then flip/flopped a couple times until 2011.

 

[Spartanmack]

I wonder what all of those slaves that were freed in 2013 are doing today?

Good question, presumably 40 acres and a mule was sunset or defunded by then.

 

[byco42]

This may come as a surprise to people who get their history from the likes of the NYT, Ward Churchill, Howard Zinn, etc but the state of Mississippi's Governor, Lt Governor, SOS, AG, State Senate and House were solidly blue from 1878 through 1991 when most of those offices other than Governor were still solid blue until 2000 or later. The state senate and house flipped to Republican majorities in 2011 & 2012, respectively.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Amendment was certified the following year - the Dems were going to get around to it eventually. Please, tell us more about the "big switch" and the "southern strategy" and how the Republican party is now the party of racism. Anyone who believes this garbage is a dope, and in mc's case, also a racist.

Edit: national offices are pretty similar - solid Dem until Thad Cochran won a senate seat in 1978, the other senate seat flipped in '89. Their Reps flipped Red briefly in the late 90s then flip/flopped a couple times until 2011.

Hold on there. Mississippi Democratic House and Senate ratified the 13th in 1995. Talk about progressive. But some filing SNAFU prevented the ratification from being official.

The Mississippi secretary of state failed to sign it and send a copy to the office of the federal registrar. The details as to why are detailed.

Apparently, it took another 18 years to fix things.

NOTE: Kentucky (1976) and Delaware (1901) also waited until the 20th century to ratify. Curiously, both were border states during the Civil War.