Rome trip

[dubbsco]

Okay so if in the next couple of years, he hasn't won a BTC or beat OSU, it's business as usual and all these stories remain cute?

The pedestal some fans put this guy on is total lunacy. He's done a great job, but in the next year or two it's time to do something this program hasn't done in an eternity.

 

[hungry]

It's not a sales pitch; it's the Truth, and people have the free will to accept or reject it. Or ignore it or make up their own version it. None of that changes it, though.

I was hoping to avoid the inevitable religious discussion which is probably banned on this board.

 

[hungry]

Trust me, I never even suggested he's a bad coach or that he needs to be fired. Mine is more to the point that some of these outside stories are starting to wear on me and will be even harder to stomach if there's not some type of championship or big win next season (OSU).

They are not wearing on me at all.

They sure are wearing on the fans of other teams, though.

The fact that ESPN is following Michigan around Italy and every other thing Harbaugh does, shows that he is not wearing on the general sports public, either.

I can understand how it does get a little old to hear about what he ate or if he pooped today, but the other stuff? I think the public is very interested.

The whole, "This guy hasn't won shit" thing just doesn't resonate with me. That is mostly MSU fans. Harbaugh went 20-6 in 2 seasons, which is better than Dontoni did his first 2 seasons.

 

[hungry]

Okay so if in the next couple of years, he hasn't won a BTC or beat OSU, it's business as usual and all these stories remain cute?

The pedestal some fans put this guy on is total lunacy. He's done a great job, but in the next year or two it's time to do something this program hasn't done in an eternity.

I don't think they are "cute."

I don't place anyone on a pedestal.

He's gone 20-6 and I only expect that record to improve. The team might take a step back from 10-3 this season, but years 4 and 5 should be excellent (if Harbaugh stays at Michigan.)

 

[byco42]

I was hoping to avoid the inevitable religious discussion which is probably banned on this board.

I'll not extend it.

 

[hungry]

Let's look at both of the Harbaugh-led Michigan vs OSU games, so far.

The first game in Michigan Stadium was not close. OSU came into AA and blew Michigan out. They completely dominated them.

In year 2, Michigan went down to Cbus and played OSU toe-to-toe for 60 minutes. They played to a tie.

I expect that moving forward, The Game will be very close. Michigan will get one of those very close games. In the last approximately 10 years, how many close games have we seen with OSU?

 

[dubbsco]

Like I said, the Rome story is cool. Some of the others are as well. But the stuff about switching to lululemon, putting gatorade on cereal, whatever new silly stories pop up throughout the summer are just starting to wear thin.

And if they take a step back, I'll be thoroughly disappointed. It's 2017, freshman are expected to contribute immediately and he was basically doing this with Hoke's guys, which everyone figured were no good. He now has all of his in place and a pretty damn favorable schedule. Because if they don't beat OSU at home this season, next season probably won't be any different on the road.

 

[hungry]

Like I said, the Rome story is cool. Some of the others are as well. But the stuff about switching to lululemon, putting gatorade on cereal, whatever new silly stories pop up throughout the summer are just starting to wear thin.

And if they take a step back, I'll be thoroughly disappointed. It's 2017, freshman are expected to contribute immediately and he was basically doing this with Hoke's guys, which everyone figured were no good. He now has all of his in place and a pretty damn favorable schedule. Because if they don't beat OSU at home this season, next season probably won't be any different on the road.

Year 3 is always considered a step-back year. It's because, typically year 3 of a coach's tenure is filled with young guys. It's just what happens when a coach takes over a program.

The schedule is not favorable at all. I don't see where you're getting that one. This is one of the most difficult schedules in the country. I've seen several articles already calling it that. They go to Dallas to play a top 10 Florida team in the first game. Their "cupcakes" are Cincinnati and Air Force, 2 teams that really aren't even cupcakes. The only thing favorable is that they have MSU and OSU at home. After a year with 8 home games, they only have 6 this season. I have no idea how you can call this schedule "favorable."

 

[byco42]

Year 3 is always considered a step-back year.

Bo was 11-1 his third year. Moeller was 9-0-3 his third year. Lloyd was 12-0 his third year.
Perhaps Moeller and Carr were part of the same continuum, but ...

 

[dubbsco]

Home games against your two big rivals (MSU, OSU), Florida is a PERFECT top 10 team to play early because I still don't think they are any good whatsoever. They haven't figured out how to score points in 5 years. Penn State I expect to take a big step back. That leaves Wisconsin as the biggest challenge IMO.

And Y3 is a step back year?? That's basically the year where you see whether or not your new coach is truly elite or if the two years prior were for naught. I have no clue where that's coming from.

 

[hungry]

Bo was 11-1 his third year. Moeller was 9-0-3 his third year. Lloyd was 12-0 his third year.
Perhaps Moeller and Carr were part of the same continuum, but ...

It is not the same scenario. Moeller and Carr continued a successful program, even though Moeller got fired. It was not because of results on the field. I guess I should say that when a coach typically takes over a program that the prior regime was a failure in.

 

[hungry]

Bo was 11-1 his third year. Moeller was 9-0-3 his third year. Lloyd was 12-0 his third year.
Perhaps Moeller and Carr were part of the same continuum, but ...

Plus, I said "typically." 2 examples does not defeat the theory...

 

[UMRules06]

Harbaugh's been great no doubt about it. We're not going to find a replacement that is suddenly just going to start beating OSU and Urban's Meyers ass every single year. They're a tough damn team, and we nearly (should have) beat them in the Shoe last season. If that's really what is making the difference for some fans, I'm not sure what to say. The Alabama's and OSUs of the world are always at the top of the rankings because they have stud/star players making the difference for them. I don't think it's a coaching issue at all.

This is not Bo's Big Ten anymore where it was just us and OSU every year too. There are a lot of quality programs to contend with and it's not so easy to just rip off conference titles every year.

Having said all that there are certainly areas the team needs to improve. Namely the run game and offensive line performance. But again its hard to field a "perfect" team here. The other fluff I do not pay attention to, because I don't care. The gatorade on the cereal stuff who gives a crap? Just don't bother paying attention to it.

 

[dubbsco]

You'll really have to dig up some evidence to prove that Year 3 is a "step-back" year for coaching regimes. Year 3 is ultimately when the "trial period" is over and you see whether or not that program is for real.

 

[hungry]

Home games against your two big rivals (MSU, OSU), Florida is a PERFECT top 10 team to play early because I still don't think they are any good whatsoever. They haven't figured out how to score points in 5 years. Penn State I expect to take a big step back. That leaves Wisconsin as the biggest challenge IMO.

And Y3 is a step back year?? That's basically the year where you see whether or not your new coach is truly elite or if the two years prior were for naught. I have no clue where that's coming from.

Let's say a coach is crapping the bed. Recruits start not coming. His second to last year is usually pretty crappy and his last year is usually totally crap. A new coach comes in and scraps together a recruiting class in 1 month, usually with people that are sitting around uncommitted. That is usually 3 years of poor recruiting. Then throw in defections from players that don't like the new coach or that are disliked by the new coach. Year 3 is ripe for a step back in this scenario, just like with the youth on this team.

Other people think Florida is good, otherwise, they wouldn't have them in the top 10. It's going to be a dogfight and we are breaking in almost an entirely new team.

OSU will be the biggest challenge, as always.

6 homes games, instead of 8.

 

[hungry]

You'll really have to dig up some evidence to prove that Year 3 is a "step-back" year for coaching regimes. Year 3 is ultimately when the "trial period" is over and you see whether or not that program is for real.

No, that'd be year 4 and 5. When you actually have some of your own seniors that you wanted to recruit.

 

[byco42]

Plus, I said "typically." 2 examples does not defeat the theory...

You said "always" ... but I am not one to parse words. Saban was 12-0 in his third season after taking over for Mike Shula. Just seems just a bit arbitrary to me. Even Kelly was 12-1 his third season after taking over for Weis.

 

[dubbsco]

Again, it's 2017. Football is not the same animal anymore. Freshman and sophomores are making massive impacts on their team. His system is in place, he has most of his guys in the system and basically everyone is flushed. That whole expression that "the team is better but the record is worse" doesn't really make a ton of sense. It is what it is, it's been a decade, you have your two big rivals at home and you HAVE to at some point, beat someone you aren't supposed to. Time to win this division.

 

[dubbsco]

-Harbaugh gave Stanford their best season in Y3 in like forever.
-Kelly went 12-1 in Y3 at ND, 13-1 at GVSU in Y3.
-Meyer won national title in Year 3 at OSU.
-Ferentz had his best year of his first three at Iowa in Y3.

You'll find examples of some coaches having a similar or slight step back, and others like above who went to the next level. But saying Year 3 is the general step-back year is something that you are going to have to do a bit more digging up to prove.

 

[Michlady]

Jim wished for a championship when he threw his coin in Trevi fountain

Meanwhile great trip for,this young men. Photos on Twitter in several accounts

Angelique doing the gelato reviews.