Tired of talking about 2013 and before.....

[dubbsco]

Booger, it's not that complicated man, CJ managed to get all those yards because Stafford threw about 900 times a game and Calvin is a once-in-a-lifetime generation WR.

The dude could catch passes from me. He's a freak. I cannot count how many times he had to make some ridiculous grab. PS: Wouldn't Stafford throwing into triple coverage just solidify the fact that he makes horrible decisions and is lucky to have a guy that bails him out time and time again??!!

 

[tomdalton22]

1. He was never good.
2. He was only a Lion in 2009 & 2010.....Staffors rookie year when he got hurt and his 2nd year when he played 2.5 games.

Just an AWFUL example........NEXT!!!!

he was never good but was worse with the Lions.

That said...you say his rookie year doesn't count and his second year doesn't count either because he was hurt. That only leaves us 3 seasons to come up with players. We already gave you Sheffler and Nate. That is 2 players that were better with different QBs.

 

[brewer229]

He could have.....but no other WR....not Rice, not Moss, not Harrison, Wayne, D. Thomas or anyone else got that far with their HOF QB's.

If Stafford sucks so bad.....and CJ gets triple teamed every snap.....how did Stafford manage to get him nearly 2000?

Where did I say he sucked? I think he is in that 13-16 range. Good but flawed.

Calvin is in the debate as the best WR of all time, he is in an offense and era that is throw first. There is many reasons to think Calvin is capable of putting up great numbers with various QBs. I mean he put up 1331 in a season where the leading QB (DanO) put up 1600 yards.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

205 targets...only a 59% catch rate.

Nice cherry pick.

9.58 ypt. Right up there with the best in the NFL that year.

Try again.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Where did I say he sucked? I think he is in that 13-16 range. Good but flawed.

Calvin is in the debate as the best WR of all time, he is in an offense and era that is throw first. There is many reasons to think Calvin is capable of putting up great numbers with various QBs. I mean he put up 1331 in a season where the leading QB (DanO) put up 1600 yards.

Agreed, but you're making an assumption. Could have happened. But we won't know. Everyone is entitled to their opinion....but I'm not going to assume that what you say is a fact.

All the other players I named, with the exception of Rice, played in pass happy, WR friendly times.....and they didnt do it.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

he was never good but was worse with the Lions.

That said...you say his rookie year doesn't count and his second year doesn't count either because he was hurt. That only leaves us 3 seasons to come up with players. We already gave you Sheffler and Nate. That is 2 players that were better with different QBs.

I said I partially agree with Scheffler.....I don't agree at all about Burelson. He was almost 30 by the time he was a Lion.....very diminished skill set as opposed to when he was 23. Again, he was nothing more than a #3 or #4 talent with an #2's paycheck.

 

[dubbsco]

It's a pretty easy assumption to make. The guy is a freak. He makes some of the most insane catches ever thrown. It's a lot easier to say that he would have similar #s no matter who was throwing him the ball, vs Stafford making him look good.

 

[tomdalton22]

Nice cherry pick.

9.58 ypt. Right up there with the best in the NFL that year.

Try again.

right up there with the best...but not the best?

You asked how Stafford almost got 2000 yards for CJ and I told you...he targeted him 205 times.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

It's a pretty easy assumption to make. The guy is a freak. He makes some of the most insane catches ever thrown. It's a lot easier to say that he would have similar #s no matter who was throwing him the ball, vs Stafford making him look good.

I never have said or ever will say stafford has made CJ look good. My point was pretty simple.....how is Stafford supposed to produce with exactly ONE good WR option to throw to?

You rip on the guy for not making players better, but he's dealing with nothing but guys that have been benched (Thomas) guys that were cut by other teams (Durham,) guys that just arent good (Pettigrew) guys passed their prime (Burelson) and guys that nobody else even wanted (Ogletree and Ross)

I'm not convinced that, other than the top 3 (manning, brady and discount fuckity fuck) anyone else would have had much success with that group.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

right up there with the best...but not the best?

You asked how Stafford almost got 2000 yards for CJ and I told you...he targeted him 205 times.

Cant teach a rock to swim.

Go with that, little guy!!

 

[brewer229]

Agreed, but you're making an assumption. Could have happened. But we won't know. Everyone is entitled to their opinion....but I'm not going to assume that what you say is a fact.

All the other players I named, with the exception of Rice, played in pass happy, WR friendly times.....and they didnt do it.

Your whole post was an assumption. Saying no other QB could of gotten more out of those WR. We don't know, except the two that played with other QBs who put up better numbers with other QBs.

 

[mhughes0021]

Even after drafting Ebron, I would have a much easier time stomaching Moncrief than Swanson. Doesn't require a bunch of grooming to teach the C position. I would rather them draft a late 1st (if they did okay this year) or 2nd round on a much more skilled C, drop him in and play, rather than "grooming" a kid who just isn't very good.

"Experienced, dependable pivot who lacks starter-caliber power and athleticism. Lack of versatility hurts his chances, and he will have to survive on smarts, leadership and competitiveness."

Weeeee, 12 more years of Raiola Part 2.

agreed...I find no value in "grooming" back up centers. Not with immediate needs and who knows how much longer Crayola will be here.....does swanson play over Crayola next year even if he stays another year? don't think so....

 

[dubbsco]

Yeah, if Raiola comes back for 2015, and Swanson sat on the bench for two years, that's just horrible value. Basically threw away a 3rd rounder for the next couple of seasons. If he graded higher and was a guarantee to be a plug-and-play star for a decade, I'd be a bit more tolerable of it.

Mayhew's entire drafting philosophy is just strange. He's willing to burn a top 10 pick on a position that is never taken there (because, yes, it is a luxury), but he's willing to sit a 3rd round pick for a season or two to "groom", in which the position is one of the easiest to drop in and start. Maybe when he said "I'm a Matt Millen guy," he took that to heart?

 

[tomdalton22]

Cant teach a rock to swim.

Go with that, little guy!!

You ask a question, we give an answer and you get butt hurt that it isn't the answer that you are looking for.

2012 CJ had 9.5 YPT

Andrew Johnson, D Thomas and Dez all had better YPT. So the answer is...the Reason CJ almost got 2000 yards is because he was targeted 205 times and he is great...not because of Stafford.

 

[cheeno]

I would have to disagree with that statement Cheeno.

I believe Mayhew is certainly better than Millen, and who isn't?

I believe Mayhew has a pretty solid track record in the first round, but it's a pretty easy round to pick talent from.

I do not know if Mayhew is a guy who can spot that elite talent out of the pack of players he can choose from. I have no clue if Ebron is really an elite talent.

I do know that Mayhew and Lombardi felt he was in the same class with Watkins, Clowney, and Mack. I do know the team wanted Watkins in a bad way, and felt Ebron was the second best offensive option, and the only elite prospect left on the board.

I don't know if we didn't just buy the Emperors New Clothes here. I haven't heard too many people jumping up and down saying "This was a GREAT pick by the Lions", aside from LKP of course.

I just don't know how I feel about this pick, but the only way I am going to know is to see how it plays out. Ebron could be our Jimmy Graham, and he could be Pettigrew part II.

It was a joke based on the fact that you hate Pettigrew and think he sucks, a "blue chip" first round tight end when he was drafted. I am not funny, my jokes go over people's head. Duly noted.

 

[cheeno]

Burelson was past his prime when he got to Detroit. He was nothing more than a slot WR getting paid like a #2.

I'll give you Scheffler, though he was our 2nd TE in an offense w/CJ.

Put it like this, name another WR besides CJ that you would consider a good NFL WR (when he was a LION) that Stafford didn't produce with?

We paid Nate Burleson $5 million per year in 2010. $25 million total. That's more than Reggie Bush. Someone though he was pretty good. We are still actually paying him dead money.

 

[cheeno]

agreed...I find no value in "grooming" back up centers. Not with immediate needs and who knows how much longer Crayola will be here.....does swanson play over Crayola next year even if he stays another year? don't think so....

August remember!

 

[boogerlovejoy]

You ask a question, we give an answer and you get butt hurt that it isn't the answer that you are looking for.

2012 CJ had 9.5 YPT

Andrew Johnson, D Thomas and Dez all had better YPT. So the answer is...the Reason CJ almost got 2000 yards is because he was targeted 205 times and he is great...not because of Stafford.

LOL.....good for you.

I'm not butt hurt, I just don't agree.....I say Stafford had a big part in those yards......and CJ is awesome.

 

[dubbsco]

Of course he did, he threw the damn ball 45.44 times a game, which is absolutely insane.

You take any QB with any modicum of talent and have them throw it 45 times a game, they'll rack up the yards too. The elite/very good QBs in the NFL threw it substantially less than him, but still had similar yardage totals.

 

[tonyballs]

Even after drafting Ebron, I would have a much easier time stomaching Moncrief than Swanson. Doesn't require a bunch of grooming to teach the C position. I would rather them draft a late 1st (if they did okay this year) or 2nd round on a much more skilled C, drop him in and play, rather than "grooming" a kid who just isn't very good.

"Experienced, dependable pivot who lacks starter-caliber power and athleticism. Lack of versatility hurts his chances, and he will have to survive on smarts, leadership and competitiveness."

Weeeee, 12 more years of Raiola Part 2.

You can't say he's Raiola just yet. He has a lot of positives...

He was projected to go in the 3rd or 4th rd, Durable, respected first ever 2 time Captain at Arkansas, experience against NFL type talent at the DT position, vocal leader, fits the Lions zone blocking to a tee.
The only thing that bugs me is that he's not that strong, but the weight room can fix that. You don't need to be able to bench press 800lbs to be successful in the NFL anyways. The kid has smarts. Nothing wrong with him sitting behind Raiola for a year. Raiola has been the laughing stock of this team for a decade. We finally might have a replacement for him and it's not good enough? Hilarious.

Another thing, you would have been ok with Moncrief over Swanson? Bro, you're losing your shit over Ebron. You would have had a full on stroke if they drafted another WR. You're not fooling anyone, my man...cmon lol