Today's example of Christians behaving well

[sggatecl]

Pope Francis calls for civil union law for same-sex couples, in shift from Vatican stance

In a documentary that premiered Wednesday in Rome, Pope Francis called for the passage of civil union laws for same-sex couples, departing from the position of the Vatican’s doctrinal office and the pope’s predecessors on the issue.

The remarks came amid a portion of the documentary that reflected on pastoral care for those who identify as LGBT.

“Homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family. They’re children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out, or be made miserable because of it,” Pope Francis said in the film, of his approach to pastoral care.

After those remarks, and in comments likely to spark controversy among Catholics, Pope Francis weighed in directly on the issue of civil unions for same-sex couples.

“What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered,” the pope said. “I stood up for that.”

The remarks come in “Francesco,” a documentary on the life and ministry of Pope Francis which premiered Oct. 21 as part of the Rome Film Festival, and is set to make its North American premiere on Sunday.

The film chronicles the approach of Pope Francis to pressing social issues, and to pastoral ministry among those who live, in the words of the pontiff, “on the existential peripheries.”

Featuring interviews with Vatican figures including Cardinal Luis Tagle and other collaborators of the pope, “Francesco” looks at the pope’s advocacy for migrants and refugees, the poor, his work on the issue of clerical sexual abuse, the role of women in society, and the disposition of Catholics and others toward those who identify as LGBT.

 

[byco42]

Here is a rebuttal. Link

”The Pope has made it abundantly clear that his mind is not with the mind of the Church. He doesn’t believe in the sacred deposit of the Magisterium. He doesn’t feel bound to the Church’s traditions. Some readers will accept that implicitly. Others will not.

“So, let’s be very clear: One of the first principles of Catholic social teaching is that immoral acts must not be given legal sanction. That’s why the Church plainly teaches that abortion (CCC, 2273) and pornography (CCC, 2354) should be prohibited by law. We as Catholics believe that civil authorities must not condone vice, even implicitly.

“For the Pope—or any Catholic—to endorse same-sex civil unions is wicked. It follows the exact same logic that Joe Biden uses to justify his support for abortion: “I’m personally opposed to killing babies in the womb, but I wouldn’t impose that view on women who want to kill their babies.” The Pope has just made that exact same argument for male sodomy.

“Some Catholics will take this as proof that Francis is consciously working to subvert traditional Church teaching. Others will assume he’s just theologically illiterate and, frankly, not very bright. Still others will conclude that he’s prone to spouting off on topics he neither understands nor really cares to understand. Many think he’s going senile, which might be the most charitable view. But I’ll leave that for the reader to decide.

At some level, it doesn’t matter. Whether the Pope is consciously or accidentally dissenting from the Church, he is dissenting from the Church. There’s no question about that.“​

This is, actually, the worst example on this board of a Christian behaving badly.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Here is a rebuttal. Link

?The Pope has made it abundantly clear that his mind is not with the mind of the Church. He doesn?t believe in the sacred deposit of the Magisterium. He doesn?t feel bound to the Church?s traditions. Some readers will accept that implicitly. Others will not.

?So, let?s be very clear: One of the first principles of Catholic social teaching is that immoral acts must not be given legal sanction. That?s why the Church plainly teaches that abortion (CCC, 2273) and pornography (CCC, 2354) should be prohibited by law. We as Catholics believe that civil authorities must not condone vice, even implicitly.

?For the Pope?or any Catholic?to endorse same-sex civil unions is wicked. It follows the exact same logic that Joe Biden uses to justify his support for abortion: ?I?m personally opposed to killing babies in the womb, but I wouldn?t impose that view on women who want to kill their babies.? The Pope has just made that exact same argument for male sodomy.

?Some Catholics will take this as proof that Francis is consciously working to subvert traditional Church teaching. Others will assume he?s just theologically illiterate and, frankly, not very bright. Still others will conclude that he?s prone to spouting off on topics he neither understands nor really cares to understand. Many think he?s going senile, which might be the most charitable view. But I?ll leave that for the reader to decide.

At some level, it doesn?t matter. Whether the Pope is consciously or accidentally dissenting from the Church, he is dissenting from the Church. There?s no question about that.?​

This is, actually, the worst example on this board of a Christian behaving badly.

Now, is this the equivalent of the lesbianic scissors thing?

And is that really even a thing?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UD5gYk4_Vs

 

[Michchamp]

Can't the Pope excommunicate you for disagreeing with him?

 

[Spartanmack]

Can't the Pope excommunicate you for disagreeing with him?

you're probably confusing the pope w/ Kalinecountry. I don't think the pope is that petty.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Pope also called separating children from their parents the highest form of cruelty in that interview.

 

[byco42]

Can't the Pope excommunicate you for disagreeing with him?

Was your catechesis at Brother Rice that abysmal? By the very phrasing of the question I can say “yes” and that you are not at all familiar with what excommunication is and its purpose.

The answer: Not universally. Especially when he himself is in error. He has, however, failed to excommunicate “catholic” politicians who willfully promote practices that result in mortal sin for themselves and others and that also contradict Church doctrine.

EDIT: As have many bishops who have the authority.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here is a rebuttal. Link

I noticed that the 2nd tab of Crisis Magazine is 'Politics' and the 3rd is 'Church'

 

[byco42]

I noticed that the 2nd tab of Crisis Magazine is 'Politics' and the 3rd is 'Church'

The tag line is ?A voice for the faithful catholic laity.?

 

[Gulo Blue]

The tag line is ?A voice for the faithful catholic laity.?

Do you know (this is not a loaded question - I don't know the answer) if Pope Francis is appointing Cardinals at a faster pace than his predecessors? (Packing the Conclave) I've seen headlines worried about how left-leaning his appointments are, but how big a deal is it?

 

[tomdalton22]

This is one of the reasons the Catholic church is such a joke.

"For the Pope—or any Catholic—to endorse same-sex civil unions is wicked."

 

[byco42]

This is one of the reasons the Catholic church is such a joke.

"For the Pope—or any Catholic—to endorse same-sex civil unions is wicked."

The key word here is “endorse”. A same-sex civil union or marriage is 180-degrees out of phase with what Jesus Christ, through the Church He established, teaches about marriage, which is a life-long covenant between one man and one woman.

To willfully contradict the person of Jesus Christ is, indeed, wicked, and no joke.

 

[tomdalton22]

The key word here is ?endorse?. A same-sex civil union or marriage is 180-degrees out of phase with what Jesus Christ, through the Church He established, teaches about marriage, which is a life-long covenant between one man and one woman.

To willfully contradict the person of Jesus Christ is, indeed, wicked, and no joke.

I fully endorse same sex marriage. There is not a single good reason why two women or two men shouldn't be able to be married. They have the same right to be miserable like the rest of us

 

[byco42]

I fully endorse same sex marriage. There is not a single good reason why two women or two men shouldn't be able to be married. They have the same right to be miserable like the rest of us

I do not endorse so-called same-sex marriage, because is it not, by definition of the term, a marriage.

I must be the exception in regards to misery.

 

[tomdalton22]

I do not endorse so-called same-sex marriage, because is it not, by definition of the term, a marriage.

I must be the exception in regards to misery.

the misery part was a joke...I am perfectly happy as well.

you are choosing the definition that suits your argument.

 

[Spartanmack]

I do not endorse so-called same-sex marriage, because is it not, by definition of the term, a marriage.

I must be the exception in regards to misery.

Me too, perfectly happily married. Maybe not so true for Diego...

https://youtu.be/WqV736QzwZY

 

[Spartanmack]

the misery part was a joke...I am perfectly happy as well.

you are choosing the definition that suits your argument.

I couldn’t care less what the government says or thinks about the status of my relationship with my wife. I don’t think the government should care or have a say in the matter - they should be out of the marriage business completely. My marriage certificate from the Church means way more to me.

 

[byco42]

the misery part was a joke...I am perfectly happy as well.

you are choosing the definition that suits your argument.

I?m abiding by the definition established from Christ?s own mouth.

 

[tomdalton22]

I?m abiding by the definition established from Christ?s own mouth.

The definition from
that storybook they have in churches and motel rooms?

 

[byco42]

The definition from
that storybook they have in churches and motel rooms?

No. The True and Only Definition, recorded in writing.