2024 Election

[tigermud]

2 years ahead of time. I agree with Sam Zell. Best thing for our country would be if Trump and Biden don't run in 2024.

 

[byco42]

2 years ahead of time. I agree with Sam Zell. Best thing for our country would be if Trump and Biden don't run in 2024.

Unfortunately the "powers who shouldn't be" are going to select our candidates as always. We will not be pleased.

 

[tinselwolverine]

2 years ahead of time. I agree with Sam Zell. Best thing for our country would be if Trump and Biden don't run in 2024.

Is he the guy who started that money transfer payment app?

What does Sam Venmo think about the whole thing?

 

[tigermud]

Is he the guy who started that money transfer payment app?

What does Sam Venmo think about the whole thing?

idk, I had it on mute.

 

[tomdalton22]

well, Biden is working on getting some more support from some of his base. He got the release of Brittany Griner :cheers:

So, he covers the black vote, WNBA fans, & the LGBTQIA+ community. All he had to do is give Russia back notorious Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout (once nicknamed the Merchant of Death).

If this were a fantasy football trade the commissioner would have vetoed it.

 

[byco42]

well, Biden is working on getting some more support from some of his base. He got the release of Brittany Griner :cheers:

So, he covers the black vote, WNBA fans, & the LGBTQIA+ community. All he had to do is give Russia back notorious Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout (once nicknamed the Merchant of Death).

If this were a fantasy football trade the commissioner would have vetoed it.

Was Al Avila involved in brokering this trade? Ned Harkness?
The timing is interesting: after the GA runoff. Paul Whelan still is imprisoned.

And @Pressec lauded the "intersectional value" that Griner possesses:

"She [Griner] is an inspiration to millions of Americans, particularly the LGBTO+I Americans and women of color. She should have never been detained by Russia."

Maybe she never should have made the colossal blunder of harboring drugs in Russia.

Randi Weingartner, American Teacher's Federation president: "What a great relief!!!(sic) Extraordinary news, a basketball star, but also a gay, black woman is released. And yes of course we want other prisoners like Paul Whelan released."

"other prisoners like" = the ones who don't matter as much.

I am glad that Griner is out of Russia. Less enthusiastic that an international arms dealer convicted of plotting to kill Americans is back in Russia. Russia got the better of the deal. Also, Biden, never again preach to me about gun control.

EDIT: Biden made no mention of Bout in his remarks about Griner's release and declined to answer a reporter's question about who Russia got in return. It wasn't no supplemental draft pick from the Phoenix Mercury.

---------------------

EDIT: I know this is long, but have an attention span of 3:00 for a change and read this. I'll not make another similar appeal, and its the first time that I have.

From NBC News: 12-8-2022 9:27 a.m. EST Link (ARCHIVED)

A senior U.S. official told NBC News that the U.S. government had sought to have both Griner and Whelan released as part of a swap with the Kremlin, which wanted the return of Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer who has served 11 years of a 25-year sentence in the U.S. But the official said Russia has treated Whelan differently because he is an accused spy, and that the Kremlin gave the White House the choice of either Griner or Whelan ? or none.​

From NBC News, the same story, updated: 12-8-2022 4:10 p.m. EST Link

A senior U.S. official told NBC News that the U.S. government had sought to have both Griner and Whelan released as part of a swap with the Kremlin, which wanted the return of Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer who has served 11 years of a 25-year sentence in the U.S. But the official said Russia has treated Whelan differently because he is an accused spy, and that the Kremlin ultimately gave the White House the choice of either Griner or no one after different options were proposed.​

Biden said that Whelan was off the table. It was Griner or no-one. That apparently was not the case, according to what NBC calls a "Senior White House Official," and not Tucker Carlson, Steve Deace, or James Woods.

?Due to the nature of the sham espionage charges Russia levied against Paul, the Russians have continued to treat his situation differently from Brittney?s and rejected each and every one of our proposals for his release,? a senior administration official said.?It was a choice between bringing home one particular American, Brittney Griner, or bringing home none.?​

NBC @ 0927: the Kremlin gave the White House the choice of either Griner or Whelan ? or none.
NBC @ 1610: gave the White House the choice of either Griner or no one after different options were proposed.

Apparently, NBC is not interested in why the narrative changed. Because, apparently, it was told to change it. Anyone care? Anyone ask NBC what of the critical change in the story?

More Irony: The military man sacrifices himself for the civilian woman. I think that this is just. And proper. It's what any man should do in the situation. But the Biden administration won't even recognize, let alone acknowledge, that distinction. It will simply lie about the negotiations to score political points. Thus "the spirit of the age."

 

[Michchamp]

I keep seeing Whelan described as a "Marine."

Unlike some people, I have a functional memory that goes back beyond
5 minutes, and I remember thinking the story had more than meets the eye. The guy was drummed out of the Marines for theft, and then somehow got a job as head of IT security (or whatever) for a corporation (Borg Warner, an auto parts manufacturer) and had passports for three different countries...

I don't know what he was actually doing in Russia... but there's obviously more to the story than we know.

 

[tomdalton22]

I keep seeing Whelan described as a "Marine."

Unlike some people, I have a functional memory that goes back beyond
5 minutes, and I remember thinking the story had more than meets the eye. The guy was drummed out of the Marines for theft, and then somehow got a job as head of IT security (or whatever) for a corporation (Borg Warner, an auto parts manufacturer) and had passports for three different countries...

I don't know what he was actually doing in Russia... but there's obviously more to the story than we know.

My memory isn't the best so I googled him prior to posting my snarky comments. He did seem sketchy A.F. The article I read said he used another person's SS# for the larceny that he was kicked out for. I guess his family didn't know he was kicked out of the Marines.

 

[byco42]

Talk about missing the entire point. Both of yez. I know about Whelan's past. It's irrelevant.

 

[tomdalton22]

Talk about missing the entire point. Both of yez. I know about Whelan's past. It's irrelevant.

I don't know what your point was since you changed your post since I read it the first time.

My initial point was that Biden only did this so he can look good. I was responding to Michamp saying that I agree that Walen does look sketchy (maybe he really is a spy of some sort). If he is, I think that Russia has a good case for keeping him in prison.

 

[byco42]

I don't know what your point was since you changed your post since I read it the first time.

My initial point was that Biden only did this so he can look good. I was responding to Michamp saying that I agree that Walen does look sketchy (maybe he really is a spy of some sort). If he is, I think that Russia has a good case for keeping him in prison.

Russia, according to a "Senior WH Official" as reported by NBC News, offered Whelan in exchange for Bout. Or Griener. A choice of one or the other. Then, the Biden admin changed the story to claim that only Griner was offered in the trade. And NBC updated the article that reported that both were trade options to claim that Griner was the only option. That's the point.


If you re-read the post, it will be clear. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I keep seeing Whelan described as a "Marine."

Unlike some people, I have a functional memory that goes back beyond
5 minutes, and I remember thinking the story had more than meets the eye. The guy was drummed out of the Marines for theft, and then somehow got a job as head of IT security (or whatever) for a corporation (Borg Warner, an auto parts manufacturer) and had passports for three different countries...

I don't know what he was actually doing in Russia... but there's obviously more to the story than we know.

I know, right?

How do we know the circumstances of his ?discharge? weren?t a subterfuge to give cover for his covert activities?

We don?t.

 

[Michchamp]

Russia, according to a "Senior WH Official" as reported by NBC News, offered Whelan in exchange for Bout. Or Griener. A choice of one or the other. Then, the Biden admin changed the story to claim that only Griner was offered in the trade. And NBC updated the article that reported that both were trade options to claim that Griner was the only option. That's the point.


If you re-read the post, it will be clear. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

I get your point. I don't think it's the "gotcha" you think it is, because like tom said, the guy seems to really be a spy, and therefore I can't imagine Russia being willing to hand him over for some celebrity arms dealer.

And either way, Greiner didn't do anything wrong besides smoking pot and getting caught in the middle of international politics; she isn't actually a player in these games. I think we're actually better off without Whelan.

I bet Trump would probably agree, if that makes you feel better. Remember: he likes guys who don't get captured

 

[tinselwolverine]

I get your point. I don't think it's the "gotcha" you think it is, because like tom said, the guy seems to really be a spy, and therefore I can't imagine Russia being willing to hand him over for some celebrity arms dealer.

And either way, Greiner didn't do anything wrong besides smoking pot and getting caught in the middle of international politics; she isn't actually a player in these games. I think we're actually better off without Whelan.

I bet Trump would probably agree, if that makes you feel better. Remember: he likes guys who don't get captured

That?s funny.

What separates a ?celebrity? arms dealer from a garden variety arms dealer?

 

[Michchamp]

That?s funny.

What separates a ?celebrity? arms dealer from a garden variety arms dealer?

they made a movie about him.

 

[byco42]

I know, right?

How do we know the circumstances of his ?discharge? weren?t a subterfuge to give cover for his covert activities?

We don?t.

I am reminded of The Departed when Leo-character went to prison.

 

[byco42]

I get your point. I don't think it's the "gotcha" you think it is, because like tom said, the guy seems to really be a spy, and therefore I can't imagine Russia being willing to hand him over for some celebrity arms dealer.

So Russia's offer to do so was not sincere. Because he actually is a spy. So why make the offer?

And either way, Greiner didn't do anything wrong besides smoking pot and getting caught in the middle of international politics; she isn't actually a player in these games. I think we're actually better off without Whelan.

So the Biden administration's desire to retrieve him is sincere. Because he actually is a spy. And it wants the intel he has. So it, instead, retrieves a pawn in geo-politics for political points, rather than the spy who knows too much.

Perhaps two things can be true at the same time.

I bet Trump would probably agree, if that makes you feel better. Remember: he likes guys who don't get captured

Taken as slightly presumptive and patronizing, and not relevant to the situation.

Anyway, Biden made the right choice in selecting Griner. Too bad it didn't have the sand to reveal that it made the choice to leave Whelan behind, and then lie about having it in the first place. But, politicians lie, so what's the rumpus, anyway?

 

[tomdalton22]

More Irony: The military man sacrifices himself for the civilian woman. I think that this is just. And proper. It's what any man should do in the situation. But the Biden administration won't even recognize, let alone acknowledge, that distinction. It will simply lie about the negotiations to score political points. Thus "the spirit of the age."

This I don't agree with. Everyone wants to be equal, then let them be equal.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's not all bad news. If Biden doesn't run again, octogenarian, thoroughly unaccomplished no good lay-about, socialist moron, dirty, smelly, hippy Bernie Sanders is going to take a hard look at another run. Oh wait, maybe it is all bad news...

Edit: I left out hypocrite - he is also a massive hypocrite as well as a thoroughly unaccomplished no good lay-about, socialist moron, dirty, smelly, hippy. Oh, and probably a criminal too since he very likely did leverage the power of his office to strong arm a bank into making a bad loan to a college that his wife bankrupted do to her committing fraud because she's a shitty person - a deed for which she was handsomely rewarded with a nice golden parachute that was probably used to buy one of the socialist couples 3 houses.

 

[Spartanmack]

EDIT: I know this is long, but have an attention span of 3:00 for a change and read this. I'll not make another similar appeal, and its the first time that I have...


...Biden said that Whelan was off the table. It was Griner or no-one. That apparently was not the case, according to what NBC calls a "Senior White House Official," and not Tucker Carlson, Steve Deace, or James Woods.

Biden probably meant that came from him - he took Whelan off the table because HE wanted Griner or no one.