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Bachmann is...

Not to imply that she isn't crazy, but I think the Sumerians is where where we get the 5,000 number. They get credited with the oldest writing and the wheel, which I think I'm aware of because it's stamped into the concrete on a timeline of inventions at Disney World. Or maybe I'm missing your point. That seems likely.

Well the early formation and pottery of Sumerian culture comes from around 5000 BC - add on the 2k years since and you're at seven thousand over the age she is saying. The Wall of Jericho has been carbon dated to be approx. 8000 BC.

I think her basis on the age of the world corresponds to the Old Testament.
 
The only thing I would describe as simple about that theory is the person who presented it. If an employer doesn't have to pay $9.50 an hour to fill job B then he/she wouldn't pay $9.50 an hour. In order to believe your theory, you have to believe workers have no choice and would be willing to accept the lower wages or there would be someone else willing to do the job for less but we know that's not the case because if it were, then hourly wages would naturally drift to the minimum wage and clearly, they do not. The only reason hourly workers make more than the minimum wage is because their skills are worth what they are being paid. The minimum wage displaces low skilled workers, it doesn't lift the pay scale for everyone else.

Not to imply that she isn't crazy, but I'm going to side with sggatecl on this one. Setting a minimum wage probably won't apply much pressure to wages more than 2-3x above minimum wage, but I do think it bumps up a lot of wages near it. For example, all the wages that started at minimum wage and then got % raises from there.
 
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Well the early formation and pottery of Sumerian culture comes from around 5000 BC - add on the 2k years since and you're at seven thousand over the age she is saying. The Wall of Jericho has been carbon dated to be approx. 8000 BC.

I think her basis on the age of the world corresponds to the Old Testament.

Wikipedia says 3350 for the language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language
 
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For the language but for the formation of the people of the Uruk region.

Sumerians are cool. Gilgamesh is a good read.

Not to imply that she isn't crazy, but she said recorded human history, and got the date about right for the oldest writing.
 
For the language but for the formation of the people of the Uruk region.

Sumerians are cool. Gilgamesh is a good read.

Most of what I know about them is that they have extra villager hit points and double farm production.
 
It's actually a pretty simple concept.

Job A pays minimum wage, we'll call it 7.50/hr. Job B pays 9.50/hr. Minimum wage is eliminated, employers of Job A decide to lower their pay to 5.50/hr. Employers of Job B decide there is no way that Job B should be payed 4.00/hr more than Job A and cuts wages to 7.50/hr.

That's just the simplest way of looking at it, there would be many other factors. Fact is, it wouldn't just effect people making minimum wage.



See, this guy ^^ gets it.

Minimum wage sets the bar. So X job will pay Y amount over minimum wage. But if there is no minimum then X job has no standard to surpass, the result being more difficult jobs lose much of the baseline set by more menial ones. With out a preset minimum, most hourly workers would suffer.
 
Not to imply that she isn't crazy, but she said recorded human history, and got the date about right for the oldest writing.

Right on. I'll agree with you.

I find it hard to believe she doesn't think the Old Testament is the oldest writing. Kudos to her if she recognizes what many think is the source text for what ultimately became her faith.
 
See, this guy ^^ gets it.

Minimum wage sets the bar. So X job will pay Y amount over minimum wage. But if there is no minimum then X job has no standard to surpass, the result being more difficult jobs lose much of the baseline set by more menial ones. With out a preset minimum, most hourly workers would suffer.

clearly, neither of you "gets it". The minimum wage displaces low skilled workers by setting a price for their skills that is greater than the value for those skills - fewer of them get hired. Do you think employers look at the minimum wage and just say "well, we'll just force people to pay more for our products"? Here's a quick econ 101 lesson for you - costs do not set prices, demand sets prices and there isn't a limitless supply of profit that you can just shift to labor with no affect on employment. The minimum wage means fewer people get jobs. Further, if you think that with slack in the labor force (unemployment above the natural rate), wages wouldn't tend toward the minimum, which they don't, then you clearly don't "get it". This fact alone is proof that the minimum wage is not driving wages higher in any meaningful sense. But what use do you have for facts? you've got your intuition!
 
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Not to imply she isn't crazy but there are only 1.6mm people in America who earn the minimum wage. Getting rid of it would not threaten the health and well being of tens of millions of US citizens.

did you mean to be misleading? here's a BLS report from Feb 2013; the 1.6MM figure of people @ minimum wage is accurate, but there are also 2MM people earning below the minimum wage.

some of those jobs are exempted from the minimum wage requirement, but to the extent they're pegged to it in some way, a bump in the min wage would also increase their wages.
 
clearly, neither of you "gets it". The minimum wage displaces low skilled workers by setting a price for their skills that is greater than the value for those skills - fewer of them get hired. Do you think employers look at the minimum wage and just say "well, we'll just force people to pay more for our products"? Here's a quick econ 101 lesson for you - costs do not set prices, demand sets prices and there isn't a limitless supply of profit that you can just shift to labor with no affect on employment. The minimum wage means fewer people get jobs. Further, if you think that with slack in the labor force (unemployment above the natural rate), wages wouldn't tend toward the minimum, which they don't, then you clearly don't "get it". This fact alone is proof that the minimum wage is not driving wages higher in any meaningful sense. But what use do you have for facts? you've got your intuition!

I don't know about that... In Labor economics 320 at the University of Michigan, we learned that unions also push for increases in the minimum wage laws - even though almost all union workers earn well-over the minimum wage - because of the ripple effect that increases in the minimum wage have for all hourly wage workers. So even though only 1.6MM workers earn min wage, and 2MM earn below min wage (representing approx 5% of all hourly wage workers in the U.S. according to the stats in the study I linked to in my other post), an increase in the minimum wage would benefit all workers. Seems like if the minimum wage increase were really that ineffective, or alternatively bad for workers (you seem to be arguing both), you wouldn't have big business all uniformly opposed to it.

Also, in the same class, as well as other upper-level economics courses, we learned that companies that can exercise market power (e.g. every large multi-national or multi-state corporation in the U.S.) are not subject to the usual supply/demand competitive pressures of the market. And, counter intuitively to the basic supply/demand graphs one learns in Econ 101, controls like price ceilings, minimum wage laws, etc. have the opposite effect on such employers, compelling them to produce more goods at lower cost or hire more workers, respectively.

as far as a bump in the minimum wage costing jobs, I suppose you could conceivably imagine some small mom-and-pop grocery store that hasn't already been Walmarted out of business, operating on razor thin margins, that if they were forced to pay their 16-year-old grocery baggers more than $7.25 hour, would have to simply lay some people off, and force the others to work more hours or work faster. seems like a stretch... any small business that unprofitable would probably close up shop anyway, but they may exist.
 
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Read Bachmann's "Bio" or at least her personal history and it is very revealing in terms of explaining how and why she is where she is today ...

She's pathetic and scary but so damn entertaining. I love to watch the looks on the faces of the FoxNews folks when she speaks ...they look like they swallowed a porcupine or something, knowing they then have to sell her crap, rather than just mock her like everyone else.
 
did you mean to be misleading? here's a BLS report from Feb 2013; the 1.6MM figure of people @ minimum wage is accurate, but there are also 2MM people earning below the minimum wage.

some of those jobs are exempted from the minimum wage requirement, but to the extent they're pegged to it in some way, a bump in the min wage would also increase their wages.

I did not intend to be misleading, did you? Because even if you count the 2mm exempt (many of which actually make well above the minimum wage when you includes tip income, which is why I didn't include them but didn't feel the need to explain it, even to you) 3.6mm is not "tens of millions" so pointing them out as if I ignored them hardly disproves my point.

Also, there is no mention of the extent to which jobs exempt from the minimum wage are pegged to the minimum wage. Do you have that data or did you intend to be misleading?
 
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I don't know about that... In Labor economics 320 at the University of Michigan, we learned that unions also push for increases in the minimum wage laws - even though almost all union workers earn well-over the minimum wage - because of the ripple effect that increases in the minimum wage have for all hourly wage workers. So even though only 1.6MM workers earn min wage, and 2MM earn below min wage (representing approx 5% of all hourly wage workers in the U.S. according to the stats in the study I linked to in my other post), an increase in the minimum wage would benefit all workers. Seems like if the minimum wage increase were really that ineffective, or alternatively bad for workers (you seem to be arguing both), you wouldn't have big business all uniformly opposed to it.

Also, in the same class, as well as other upper-level economics courses, we learned that companies that can exercise market power (e.g. every large multi-national or multi-state corporation in the U.S.) are not subject to the usual supply/demand competitive pressures of the market. And, counter intuitively to the basic supply/demand graphs one learns in Econ 101, controls like price ceilings, minimum wage laws, etc. have the opposite effect on such employers, compelling them to produce more goods at lower cost or hire more workers, respectively.

as far as a bump in the minimum wage costing jobs, I suppose you could conceivably imagine some small mom-and-pop grocery store that hasn't already been Walmarted out of business, operating on razor thin margins, that if they were forced to pay their 16-year-old grocery baggers more than $7.25 hour, would have to simply lay some people off, and force the others to work more hours or work faster. seems like a stretch... any small business that unprofitable would probably close up shop anyway, but they may exist.

That's the best you got - big business is opposed to the minimum wage so it must lift wages for 10s of millions of workers? This should be easy. First, businesses are uniformly opposed to it because they don't like overpaying for resources at any level - this includes both the minimum wage and the above market wages demanded by unions. That's not proof that one feeds on the other, that's just speculation by knuckleheads who don't understand economics and can't provide data to support their supposition.

The rest of this is just classic michchump Gish gallop. Did your Econ 320 professor at the uofm really tell you that it's counterintuitive for firms to produce more goods at lower cost? If so, you should have dropped that course right away because that professor is an idiot. Did he/she also neglect to tell you that controls such as price ceilings, minimum wages, subsidies, taxes, etc invariably create inefficiencies elsewhere in the system that lead to resource misallocation elsewhere (labor and/or capital), or did you just choose to ignore that bit? Did that professor also tell you that these firms with "market power" that are incentivized to produce more at lower PRICES employ the bulk of these low skilled workers and that smaller firms that don't have market power whose marginal cost of production is often at or near price (ie they are operating at razor thin margins) don't employ a significant portion of the labor force? Seems like he or she did based on that asinine last paragraph where you seem to think it only matters to grocery stores that should be put out of business anyway, which I have a hard time reconciling with your previously stated hatred for Wal Mart. If so, again you should have dropped that class because he/she is either an idiot or a liar - did he or she have an Gore/Lieberman bumper sticker on his/her car. Sadly, either your professor(s) were incompetent or more likely you were too stupid to understand that these things are actually bad.
 
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I knew that's where this would go next, picking on the econ prof.
 
... Did your Econ 320 professor at the uofm really tell you that it's counterintuitive for firms to produce more goods at lower cost? If so, you should have dropped that course right away because that professor is an idiot. ...

ironically, he's at UofC now. they must hate him.
 
ironically, he's at UofC now. they must hate him.

Is this deflection or are you really dumb enough to think I was making fun of the professor and not you? Not only did you misquote/misrepresent basic economics, you just piled a bunch of unrelated info from what you remember from an economics class that doesn't even remotely indicate the minimum wage lifts wages for any other workers, let alone 10s of millions of other workers. Again, it was nothing more than typical michturd Gish gallop. I'm sure thumb was impressed though, but then thumb is an idiot.

By the way, did you happen to notice that Mr. Charles is on the staff of the Harris School of Public Policy and is NOT a professor of economics and is not employed by the Economics Department (or the Business School) or even the college that the econ department at the University of Chicago is part of? Did you also know that, outside of the Business School and the Economics Department, the University of Chicago is actually a very liberal institution? So if Mr. Charles is an uber left liberal whack job like you, the distiginguished faculty members of the Economics Department and the B School probably don't hate him but they probably disagree with a lot of what he says.
 
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