Bernie has now won Nevada? Wtf?

[tomdalton22]

I see no problem with having to prove that you are the person you say you are prior to voting.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I see no problem with having to prove that you are the person you say you are prior to voting.

It's ideology vs practicality. Like whether you have to opt in or opt out of being an organ donor when you get your drivers license. There no strong ideological reason to be for or against either approach, but we know as a practical matter, you get a whole lot more organ donors if it's an opt out check box instead of an opt in check box on the form.

Similarly, we know that practically speaking, voter ID requirements disproportionally impacts poor people. Intentionally discouraging voting of one group or another runs counter to the principles of this country. It's one thing for an average citizen to think voter ID sounds like a good idea with no intention of selectively impacting one group or another, but you can be sure that the politicians are entirely aware of the impact. The reason it's a partisan issue is because everyone knows the impact to voters. So I don't think you can argue with a straight face that this isn't an attempt to swing votes. So in my view, it is unamerican.

 

[Michchamp]

It's ideology vs practicality. Like whether you have to opt in or opt out of being an organ donor when you get your drivers license. There no strong ideological reason to be for or against either approach, but we know as a practical matter, you get a whole lot more organ donors if it's an opt out check box instead of an opt in check box on the form.

Similarly, we know that practically speaking, voter ID requirements disproportionally impacts poor people. Intentionally discouraging voting of one group or another runs counter to the principles of this country. It's one thing for an average citizen to think voter ID sounds like a good idea with no intention of selectively impacting one group or another, but you can be sure that the politicians are entirely aware of the impact. The reason it's a partisan issue is because everyone knows the impact to voters. So I don't think you can argue with a straight face that this isn't an attempt to swing votes. So in my view, it is unamerican.

don't waste your time, Gulo. If tomdalton says its not a problem, it's not a problem. what more evidence do you need?

 

[tomdalton22]

don't waste your time, Gulo. If tomdalton says its not a problem, it's not a problem. what more evidence do you need?

I don't see a problem with having to prove who you are prior to voting and you don't have a problem with someone voting more than once or voting for someone who they aren't.

State ID's are cheap. $8.50 in Ohio and $10.00 in Michigan. Michigan will waive the fee if you are over 65 or have a disability that prevents you from being able to drive.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't see a problem with having to prove who you are prior to voting and you don't have a problem with someone voting more than once or voting for someone who they aren't.

State ID's are cheap. $8.50 in Ohio and $10.00 in Michigan. Michigan will waive the fee if you are over 65 or have a disability that prevents you from being able to drive.

it's not just the cost but the time, and requirements to acquire it.

also, it's my understanding that when people are poor, they may need to spend all their money on food and rent - ie the basic necessities - and not have much to spare, nor the inclination to take working time off to go get an ID. Crazy, I know, but tha's just what I heard.

why a photo ID anyway? from 1787 to 2006 they weren't required. and you can prove your residence with other things (rental lease, utility bill, etc).

 

[Michchamp]

there's another, related scam winding it's way through the courts now designed to fuck minorities over, sometimes called the "one person one vote" case. basically the issue is when you apportion representatives in legislatures, do you do so on the basis of registered voters, or the number of people living there? seems obvious it should be the latter. the Constitution refers to people or citizens, not "registered voters."

but of course if black people don't vote for you for some strange reason, and you want to reduce their political power because of that, makes sense to say the number of registered voters matters (especially when youre reducing their number through voter ID laws already)

 

[tinselwolverine]

it's not just the cost but the time, and requirements to acquire it.



why a photo ID anyway? from 1787 to 2006 they weren't required.

It was very difficult to obtain a photo ID in 1787.

The first federal elections under the newly ratified constitution actually happened starting at the end of 1788.

But it was still pretty hard to get a photo ID.

 

[tomdalton22]

it's not just the cost but the time, and requirements to acquire it.

also, it's my understanding that when people are poor, they may need to spend all their money on food and rent - ie the basic necessities - and not have much to spare, nor the inclination to take working time off to go get an ID. Crazy, I know, but tha's just what I heard.

why a photo ID anyway? from 1787 to 2006 they weren't required. and you can prove your residence with other things (rental lease, utility bill, etc).

Because a photo ID is better than a rental lease or utility bill to prove who you are.

 

[Michchamp]

oh wait, the supreme court just ruled against it, so for now things stay apportioned by population, not reg. voters

 

[Spartanmack]

I understand nuance is not your strong suit, nor is attention to detail, so I'll point out here that the first link refers to an opinion written by Judge Posner of the 7th Circuit, a Reagan appointee, and a well-regarded judge by both sides of the political spectrum, which eviscerates Wisconsin's voter ID law and the premise behind the need for it.

you can find the actual opinion fairly easily (it's linked to in the article) and read it for yourself. most important point it makes: voting is a fundamental right, and as such can only be infringed upon or restricted by statute if there is a compelling reason, with an actual show of harm. Sure, I guess people pretending to be other people in order to vote would be compelling; the problem is no state has been able to show evidence this is an actual problem. and if there are some instances of it occuring, it's certainly not widespread enough to justify a law that disenfranchises some not insiginificant portion of voters (other article estimates voter ID laws suppress a whopping 8% of the Democratic vote).

the idea itself is ludicrous; no campaign is sending a bunch of people to polls in order to vote as other people in great enough numbers to skew an election. and if they tried it, they'd easily be discovered when actual voters are told they cannot vote because someone else already voted as them. it's fucking absurd.

but if you can continue to stand behind this idea that voter ID fraud is a problem in the face of all this evidence to the contrary... you are Republitard material.

I understand that you think all your drivel is worthy of a nuanced response but you give yourself way too much credit. The fact that one conservative judge "eviscerated" wisconsin's voter ID laws in a wrong headed opinion doesn't prove anything. It's absolutely not true that voter fraud can't happen and not being able to prove fraud, which as a lawyer you should know is one of the most difficult things to prove isn't evidence to the contrary. And your other articles are also bullshit - voter ID laws are not voter suppression. Look at countries with the highest rates of voter turnout link and then check to see how many of those high turnout countries have voter ID laws - virtually all of them. It's also not evidence of racism nor does it disenfranchise any voters - getting an ID is easy for virtually everyone, even if it takes them a few hours. So your study is sufficiently debunked, actually it's total bullshit just like all the other nonsense you post here - none of which is worthy of a detailed, nuanced response particularly since we've already had these arguments ad nauseum. I know where you stand, I know you're an idiot, you prove it virtually every time you post your bullshit here so I see no reason to prove it again myself.

Here's one more for you dipshit Link

 

[Spartanmack]

It was very difficult to obtain a photo ID in 1787.

The first federal elections under the newly ratified constitution actually happened starting at the end of 1788.

But it was still pretty hard to get a photo ID.

you're the f'n best, man!

 

[Spartanmack]

For lack of a better place to post this - here's the idiot that your dumbass is voting for praising bread lines...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBjjP8WSbc

and this was not the young idealist Bernie Sanders - he said that as the mayor of Burlington making him over 40 years old because we all know the shiftless bumb didn't get a job until he was 40. The longer version quotes him praising the murderous regimes in both Cuba and Nicaragua which puts his latest comments about Scott Walker's policies killing people in rather amusing context. You LOVE this idiot and you go around calling conservatives "Republitards". Hilarious.

 

[dubbsco]

Ahh yes, a 12 second clip that doesn't have close to the entire soundbite. Love it.

Republican party is basically on the verge of something historic, a convention that ultimately symbolizes their party is on the verge of total implosion and that every person who went and voted for someone just wasted their afternoon. But yeah, it's the Democratic side that's in trouble. LOL. Please find these quotes for me that he loves murderous regimes. I'd like to read them.

 

[Spartanmack]

Ahh yes, a 12 second clip that doesn't have close to the entire soundbite. Love it.

Republican party is basically on the verge of something historic, a convention that ultimately symbolizes their party is on the verge of total implosion and that every person who went and voted for someone just wasted their afternoon. But yeah, it's the Democratic side that's in trouble. LOL. Please find these quotes for me that he loves murderous regimes. I'd like to read them.

Yeah, you really need context to understand what he means by bread lines are a good thing. But you can google "Bernie Sanders bread line comments" to get more of the interview. You will also hear him praising Castro and the Sandinistas. we both know you're not going to look it up though - why inform yourself?

And I didn't say the Dems were the ones that were in trouble. My point was clear - Bernie Sanders is an idiot and people who support him are equally dumb - at least as dumb as people who support Trump. But since you bring up the point of the Republican nomination being a potetpntial fiasco and say that anyone who cast a vote wasted their time, how are you going to feel about that Sanders vote when the Dem establishment steals the nomination from him?

 

[Michchamp]

if spartanhack thinks you're an idiot, it means you are not an idiot.

 

[Michchamp]

Bernie has won 6 of the last 7 primaries.

gotta win NY, or at least come very close. and he needs more elected democrats to endorse him...

I hear he's started focusing on the polling numbers in a general election, which is smart. More democrats can get on board with winning than merely in being anti-Hillary, or being a socialist. which is not to say that's all Sanders is about, but that's how her camp and the media has protrayed it.

 

[dubbsco]

What exactly happens in the contested convention? Is it just a big room of talking heads that vote on who they want for their candidate?

 

[Michchamp]

What exactly happens in the contested convention? Is it just a big room of talking heads that vote on who they want for their candidate?

I think all hell breaks loose.

 

[Gulo Blue]

What exactly happens in the contested convention? Is it just a big room of talking heads that vote on who they want for their candidate?

That's how they should do it. Big video screen, everybody talks at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsnpbOA739o&&t=14s

 

[dubbsco]

I picture this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g&nohtml5=False