Blame Bill Clinton for the mess the U.S.A. is in

[Monster]

This thread makes me laugh for so many reasons.

But the main reason is because of how Hannity and his colleagues all threw a hissy fit about two years ago because they felt everybody was "blaming Bush" and not "blaming Obama."

Yet just an administration beforehand, everybody at Fox was blaming everything -- from 9/11 to the economy, to Bush's stupidity -- on Clinton.

And now, almost 20yrs after he took office .... we have a nimrod blaming Clinton because the old mill closed down and sent the jobs "overseas."

And now, almost 20yrs after he took office .... we have a nimrod blaming Clinton because the old mill closed down and sent the jobs "overseas."


take a good look around Detroit shit for brains, it's a hell hole, but you think this has just come naturally.

the next time you are in Walmart, turn the merchandise upside down and see where 90% of their products are being made, there's a reason why 4 of the richest people in the United States are named Walton.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

chill on the name calling a bit. no need to get personal.

 

[hellifino]

Monster [/color]]

And now, almost 20yrs after he took office .... we have a nimrod blaming Clinton because the old mill closed down and sent the jobs "overseas."


take a good look around Detroit shit for brains, it's a hell hole, but you think this has just come naturally.

the next time you are in Walmart, turn the merchandise upside down and see where 90% of their products are being made, there's a reason why 4 of the richest people in the United States are named Walton.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

chill on the name calling a bit. no need to get personal.

I agree, but I didn't start it. I posted my theory on why to blame Clinton and they were the ones disrespecting my views with the insults.

 

[hellifino]

so... even though the interstate highway initiatives were started by Eisenhower in the 1950's, Bill Clinton is to blame for building them starting when he took office in 1993, never mind the fact that most of them were already built. and although NAFTA was being negotiated BY THE REAGAN administration, it's Clinton's fault that it passed, since he signed it into law well after that fact, again after he took office. I think NAFTA was signed in 1994.

and THEN Walmart moved sourcing to China, even though NAFTA only lowered trade barriers between the three North American countries, and China is not in North America...

and THEN every other company in the U.S. moved their manufacturing operations to china, except for all the ones that didn't.

ok, hellifino, I got it now.

so tell us what you plan to do about it, dipshit.

I would tell all of these companies that have left the U.S of A. that unless they move back here, we won't allow their products to be sold here. I'd give them tax breaks and incentives to do this.

I believe in the American worker... WE MAKE IT HERE...WE SELL IT HERE and WE BUY IT HERE.

 

[Monster]

Monster [/color]]

chill on the name calling a bit. no need to get personal.

I agree, but I didn't start it. I posted my theory on why to blame Clinton and they were the ones disrespecting my views with the insults.

well, consider my post directed towards everyone.

 

[lions2011]

gimps...

 

[Thumb]

so... even though the interstate highway initiatives were started by Eisenhower in the 1950's, Bill Clinton is to blame for building them starting when he took office in 1993, never mind the fact that most of them were already built. and although NAFTA was being negotiated BY THE REAGAN administration, it's Clinton's fault that it passed, since he signed it into law well after that fact, again after he took office. I think NAFTA was signed in 1994.

and THEN Walmart moved sourcing to China, even though NAFTA only lowered trade barriers between the three North American countries, and China is not in North America...

and THEN every other company in the U.S. moved their manufacturing operations to china, except for all the ones that didn't.

ok, hellifino, I got it now.

so tell us what you plan to do about it, dipshit.

I would tell all of these companies that have left the U.S of A. that unless they move back here, we won't allow their products to be sold here. I'd give them tax breaks and incentives to do this.

I believe in the American worker... WE MAKE IT HERE...WE SELL IT HERE and WE BUY IT HERE.

Great idea, if you like living in the stone age.

Because we would have no TV's, computer components, or any other electronics, and we would have almost naked.

That's a solution and a half, if I ever heard one.

 

[hellifino]

I would tell all of these companies that have left the U.S of A. that unless they move back here, we won't allow their products to be sold here. I'd give them tax breaks and incentives to do this.

I believe in the American worker... WE MAKE IT HERE...WE SELL IT HERE and WE BUY IT HERE.

Great idea, if you like living in the stone age.

Because we would have no TV's, computer components, or any other electronics, and we would have almost naked.

That's a solution and a half, if I ever heard one.

evidently not either side (Dems or Reps.) has come up with a solution, just throwing it out there.

 

[cheeno]

so... even though the interstate highway initiatives were started by Eisenhower in the 1950's, Bill Clinton is to blame for building them starting when he took office in 1993, never mind the fact that most of them were already built. and although NAFTA was being negotiated BY THE REAGAN administration, it's Clinton's fault that it passed, since he signed it into law well after that fact, again after he took office. I think NAFTA was signed in 1994.

and THEN Walmart moved sourcing to China, even though NAFTA only lowered trade barriers between the three North American countries, and China is not in North America...

and THEN every other company in the U.S. moved their manufacturing operations to china, except for all the ones that didn't.

ok, hellifino, I got it now.

so tell us what you plan to do about it, dipshit.

I would tell all of these companies that have left the U.S of A. that unless they move back here, we won't allow their products to be sold here. I'd give them tax breaks and incentives to do this.

I believe in the American worker... WE MAKE IT HERE...WE SELL IT HERE and WE BUY IT HERE.

Just like North Korea!

 

[hellifino]

I would tell all of these companies that have left the U.S of A. that unless they move back here, we won't allow their products to be sold here. I'd give them tax breaks and incentives to do this.

I believe in the American worker... WE MAKE IT HERE...WE SELL IT HERE and WE BUY IT HERE.

Just like North Korea!

did you see the number of companies that has left here to go abroad for cheap labor (see 1st page), I think there is more than enough to support us and put millions back to work. and if they want to sell abroad once they move back, then let them.

 

[Thumb]

You're right, lets just blame Bill Clinton and Sam Walton for the mess the country is in.

Forget about anyone else, and blame them for NAFTA too, not the lobbyists and industrialists who pushed for it's creation, the politicians who imagined it, wrote it, voted on and passed it, or the companies that used every loophole possible to take advantage of the China route.

It all boils down to Bill Clinton created the mess we're in, as far as you're concerned.

And you wonder why you're getting mocked and called names here?

 

[hellifino]

You're right, lets just blame Bill Clinton and Sam Walton for the mess the country is in.

Forget about anyone else, and blame them for NAFTA too, not the lobbyists and industrialists who pushed for it's creation, the politicians who imagined it, wrote it, voted on and passed it, or the companies that used every loophole possible to take advantage of the China route.

It all boils down to Bill Clinton created the mess we're in, as far as you're concerned.

And you wonder why you're getting mocked and called names

here?

Yes there were plenty that thought it was a good idea at the time (NAFTA), but Sam Walton is the one who has taken most advantage of it, the companies that have left since, are only standing on Waltons shoulders and have gotten us in the trouble we are in today. if you don't see the connection between Walton/Clinton/China/cheap jobs /poor economy than I don't know what else I can say, that will point it out.

 

[Thumb]

You're right, lets just blame Bill Clinton and Sam Walton for the mess the country is in.

Forget about anyone else, and blame them for NAFTA too, not the lobbyists and industrialists who pushed for it's creation, the politicians who imagined it, wrote it, voted on and passed it, or the companies that used every loophole possible to take advantage of the China route.

It all boils down to Bill Clinton created the mess we're in, as far as you're concerned.

And you wonder why you're getting mocked and called names

here?

Yes there were plenty that thought it was a good idea at the time (NAFTA), but Sam Walton is the one who has taken most advantage of it, the companies that have left since, are only standing on Waltons shoulders and have gotten us in the trouble we are in today. if you don't see the connection between Walton/Clinton/China/cheap jobs /poor economy than I don't know what else I can say, that will point it out.

How about pointing out that Sam Walton was DEAD before NAFTA was signed?

NAFTA was signed by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993.

Sam Walton passed away on April 5, 1992.


While I of course see the connection, I'm also not dumb enough to think that Bill Clinton and Sam Walton created the mess we are in by themselves, or were even the biggest contributors.

Fact is NAFTA had nothing to do with China, loopholes were found that took advantage of it, but many manufacturing jobs were gone long before NAFTA, and cheap products made in China have been around forever, not just since NAFTA and WALMART.

There is a small point to what you're trying to say, but you have gone way beyond it, into the realm of ridiculousness.

 

[biggunsbob]

I don't shop at Walmart.. That great Sucking sound is hellifino head exploding... We all know this is Ronnies fault... Republicans are to blame for everything at a 90% clip... But I could get rid of all of them In Washington... it will be funny to come on here and see what happens after Obama gets re-elected next year...Do yourself a favor H and stop... Your facts are weak and you are not going to change anyones mind on this board that hates the republicans... They have more to do with outsourcing and you know it..

 

[KAWDUP]

Actually Bob, the unions have at least equal blame as the Republicans.

Not begrudging them anything they have won through collective bargaining, but Republicans and Democrats didn't really play as much a part as you would like to believe. Companies saw a way to put the clamps on labor costs and jumped at the chance to make a bigger profit.

If you owned a business, are you saying you would never consider it? You would rather be passed up by all your competition and go out of business rather than make the most profit for your shareholders?

I know typical right-wing-zealot-speak, but it wasn't just one party or one administration that got us into this outsourcing mess. Also, it most assuredly is not 90-10 as you state.

 

[Thumb]

Actually Bob, the unions have at least equal blame as the Republicans.

Not begrudging them anything they have won through collective bargaining, but Republicans and Democrats didn't really play as much a part as you would like to believe. Companies saw a way to put the clamps on labor costs and jumped at the chance to make a bigger profit.

If you owned a business, are you saying you would never consider it? You would rather be passed up by all your competition and go out of business rather than make the most profit for your shareholders?

I know typical right-wing-zealot-speak, but it wasn't just one party or one administration that got us into this outsourcing mess. Also, it most assuredly is not 90-10 as you state.

Not it's not really something you can blame on any one group.

Reaganomics were a disaster, and contributed, but are not any more of a majority to blame than anything else.

The biggest thing may be the population explosion, people forget that while jobs have left, there are also many more job seekers than ever.

Corporations and Unions share a large amount of blame too, both were a bit greedy, Unions pushed for wages that were unsustainable, and corporations cut everything possible, and outsourced in order to have a healthier bottom line and profits for their stockholders.

It started as a snowflake, then a snowball, then kept rolling down the hill, to come out and say it was all NAFTA and Clinton's fault and it all started in '93 borders on the ludicrous.

 

[redandguilty]

Our problems are bigger than that. There was a time, thanks to the Iron Curtain, that nobody had any clue how well the Soviet Union was doing. The Cold War was capitalism vs. socialism, and for a long time, economists wished they knew how the USSR was doing, because it would have supported or invalidated their theories. After the collapse of the USSR, the failure of socialism became know to all triggering a global movement towards capitalism. For this reason, in an age when globalization have made markets more fluid than ever, competition is more stiff than ever before. We argue about leveling the playing field, but in some respects, we're actually getting used to a more level playing field. In the past, it was tilted in our favor.

In addition to moving towards capitalism, foreign savings were pumped into American assets like never before. We had the easiest credit for decades. The Federal Reserve helped in this respect, but even without the Fed, rates would have been low.

These 2 things in combination made us soft. Driving around and looking at businesses, it looks like most of us are getting paid to help each other consume stuff. That's not really all there is to it. There's a thing called "Dutch Disease" where a country with a wealth of some resource hurts the rest of the economy. If you ship tons of oil, one way or another, that economic success drives up your currency. Your strong currency makes it difficult for your domestic manufacturers to compete with foreign manufacturers in nations with weaker currencies. I think we have the same thing going on in the US, but instead of natural resources, it's intellectual property and financial services that hold up the value of the dollar.

This stuff took decades to unfold and it swamps the actions of any one administration.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't think you can really blame one person for labor relocating from the US to China (and other places).

prior to Nixon going to China, and the rapprochement between the U.S and China, both countries were extremely hostile to eachother.

and even after relations between the two countries improved, China was still a communist country with state ownership of all property. It wasn't until the early 90's that Jiang Zemin was able to start allowing free enterprise, helped by the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed, and it was obvious that an economy could not survive if it was that isolated, lacked efficiency because of the incentives of private property, and cut off from international capital flows.

In addition, the improvement of container ship technology allowed for a larger variety of cargo to be shipped at cheaper rates than previously possible. SO it was easier to move manufacturing facilities overseas, since the costs to get it to the markets in the US and Europe were no longer prohibitively expensive.

So not all of this was the result of a carefully orchestrated plan. a lot of factors were at play here

or, maybe it was, you know...

WALMART, CLINTON & THE UNIONS

 

[hellifino]

and ya'll want to be my Latex salesman.

 

[biggunsbob]

Actually Bob, the unions have at least equal blame as the Republicans.

Not begrudging them anything they have won through collective bargaining, but Republicans and Democrats didn't really play as much a part as you would like to believe. Companies saw a way to put the clamps on labor costs and jumped at the chance to make a bigger profit.

If you owned a business, are you saying you would never consider it? You would rather be passed up by all your competition and go out of business rather than make the most profit for your shareholders?

I know typical right-wing-zealot-speak, but it wasn't just one party or one administration that got us into this outsourcing mess. Also, it most assuredly is not 90-10 as you state.

Ok maybe 77% to 16% with 7% going to the radicals..

 

[redandguilty]

...and if anyone doubts my idea that financial services could cause Dutch Disease in our economy, what our derivatives market trades in a year is 43 times US national debt.
http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-11836&y=-6828&z=5