Boeing 737 MAX

[Michchamp]

Has anyone else been following this story?


It's horrifying on so many levels.



The fact that the US was the last nation on the planet to ground the fleet says a lot as well.

 

[sggatecl]

Who could've thought having government agencies being lead by former executives of companies under that agencies' umbrella was a bad idea?

 

[Michchamp]

Who could've thought having government agencies being lead by former executives of companies under that agencies' umbrella was a bad idea?

It's even WORSE in this case. i don't know if you saw the reporting, but through a lot of double dealing, and budget cuts intended to become self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. "government can't handle this... because we cut government funding, heh") the airlines and government decided that FAA didn't have enough resources to test and certify plane safety, so airplane manufacturers could do it themselves.

So the safety of the Boeing 737 MAX was tested and certified by Boeing engineers, and signed off on by the FAA (which given the "revolving door scam" is mostly composed of former Boeing employees and soon-to-be new Boeing employees anyway).

yay for unfettered capitalism.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's even WORSE in this case. i don't know if you saw the reporting, but through a lot of double dealing, and budget cuts intended to become self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. "government can't handle this... because we cut government funding, heh") the airlines and government decided that FAA didn't have enough resources to test and certify plane safety, so airplane manufacturers could do it themselves.

So the safety of the Boeing 737 MAX was tested and certified by Boeing engineers, and signed off on by the FAA (which given the "revolving door scam" is mostly composed of former Boeing employees and soon-to-be new Boeing employees anyway).

yay for unfettered capitalism.

that's not unfettered capitalism - it's a failure of regulation and government incompetence if not corruption, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

 

[Michchamp]

that's not unfettered capitalism - it's a failure of regulation and government incompetence if not corruption, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

Yes, it's government's fault that congressmen bought and paid for by the airline industry vote to defund the FAA, and then the head of the FAA, bought and paid for by the airline industry, which in America is basically just Boeing itself, agrees to allow Boeing to inspect and certify the safety of its own planes.

It's amazing society hasn't completely collapsed yet.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes, it's government's fault that congressmen bought and paid for by the airline industry vote to defund the FAA, and then the head of the FAA, bought and paid for by the airline industry, which in America is basically just Boeing itself, agrees to allow Boeing to inspect and certify the safety of its own planes.

It's amazing society hasn't completely collapsed yet.

you think that's the fault of capitalism? You've said some dumb stuff here on a pretty regular basis, but you never cease to amaze w/ the depths of your stupidity. We should adopt socialism because look at the planes capitalism has gotten us - we could all be flying on planes like the ones they make in Russia.

 

[Michchamp]

you think that's the fault of capitalism? You've said some dumb stuff here on a pretty regular basis, but you never cease to amaze w/ the depths of your stupidity. We should adopt socialism because look at the planes capitalism has gotten us - we could all be flying on planes like the ones they make in Russia.

Russia's not socialist, ya dingbat.

 

[Spartanmack]

Russia's not socialist, ya dingbat.

they were communist which is a lot closer to what you want to have here than either one is to capitalism. so how would you like to fly around in a Soviet era Sukhoi? Or even a modern era one? moron.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Who could've thought having government agencies being lead by former executives of companies under that agencies' umbrella was a bad idea?

I know you’re being facetious but in this case it seems to me counterintuitive to the point you’re trying to make-regardless of where the heads of agencies came from, it was this administration that finally grounded the 737.

If it says so much that the US was the last nation to ground the fleet, why then did not the previous administration do it?

I can’t find the clip, but Bill Maher was actually talking about this very issue, and he gave some poignant advisement to his fellows on the left-“Trump derangement syndrome isn’t a thing-so don’t make it one.”

 

[Gulo Blue]

that's not unfettered capitalism - it's a failure of regulation and government incompetence if not corruption, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

The failure happened under our system. To argue that it wasn't under capitalism is to imply that our system isn't capitalist.

 

[Gulo Blue]

If it says so much that the US was the last nation to ground the fleet, why then did not the previous administration do it?

Wikipedia says the FAA certified this version in March of 2017 and it went into service in May. 1st crash was October last year.

 

[Michchamp]

Wikipedia says the FAA certified this version in March of 2017 and it went into service in May. 1st crash was October last year.

the rest of the story is bad too.

Boeing wanted to compete with Airbus' newest plane, but didn't have time to design and build a new 737-sized jet. so the 737-MAX is just the same thing, but with bigger engines bolted on.

The bigger engines affected stability, and had a tendency to push the nose of the plane up, so Boeing installed a software fix that automatically dived the plane to compensate for this.

Only... they didn't adequately tell pilots... I read the reference to all this was like 2 paragraphs in a 700 page manual.

And... in the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes, the anti-stall system was activated from a single sensor, which, if malfunctioning, could make the entire plane impossible to fly, especially if the pilots had no idea what was going on.

Fucking horrifying.

 

[Michchamp]

after the Ethiopian Air crash, China, which has (or had) ordered a ton of 737-MAXes, grounded them. The FAA argued that was unnecessary, but - ominously for us Americans who love and trust our big corporations and the regulatory agencies they've captured - the rest of the world followed China, not the FAA, which for decades was seen as the worldwide gold standard for aviation safety.

The FAA was the last national authority in the world to ground the plane. bad thing to know...

 

[sggatecl]

I know you?re being facetious but in this case it seems to me counterintuitive to the point you?re trying to make-regardless of where the heads of agencies came from, it was this administration that finally grounded the 737.

If it says so much that the US was the last nation to ground the fleet, why then did not the previous administration do it?

I can?t find the clip, but Bill Maher was actually talking about this very issue, and he gave some poignant advisement to his fellows on the left-?Trump derangement syndrome isn?t a thing-so don?t make it one.?

My comment wasn't administration specific. My issues and opinions with who heads these government agencies have been what they are long before Trump came along, though I do appreciate the point you were trying to make.

 

[tinselwolverine]

My comment wasn't administration specific. My issues and opinions with who heads these government agencies have been what they are long before Trump came along, though I do appreciate the point you were trying to make.

Oh.

I thought you were being specific to Trump.

A general knock on him as he has appointed people to oversee industries in which they used to run companies, more so than I remember for any other president.

 

[tinselwolverine]

after the Ethiopian Air crash, China, which has (or had) ordered a ton of 737-MAXes, grounded them. The FAA argued that was unnecessary, but - ominously for us Americans who love and trust our big corporations and the regulatory agencies they've captured - the rest of the world followed China, not the FAA, which for decades was seen as the worldwide gold standard for aviation safety.

The FAA was the last national authority in the world to ground the plane. bad thing to know...

The Ethiopian air crash was less than a month ago.

I haven’t been following the story that closely but I looked up the history of 737 crashes and they go back to almost as old as the 737 is itself, back to 1972.



So the Ethiopian crash was less than a month ago, and you’re talking about events that transpired within less than a month.

I don’t know exactly when China grounded its fleet, or when every other nation followed suit, but obviously the United States grounded 737s in the US within weeks of everyone else doing it.

I don’t know how really telling that is.

EDIT: I just looked it up. Trump ordered the grounding within a day or two of every other nation.

Again-I don’t know how really telling that is.

 

[Michchamp]

Anonymous US airline pilot claims he was disciplined for expressing concerns with teh 737 MAX, and requesting additional training before flying... link. He wasn't fired though, as he had 2 decades of experience and an otherwise clean record. Good thing for him and for all of us airline pilots have a reasonably strong union!

 

[Michchamp]

The Ethiopian air crash was less than a month ago.

I haven?t been following the story that closely but I looked up the history of 737 crashes and they go back to almost as old as the 737 is itself, back to 1972.



So the Ethiopian crash was less than a month ago, and you?re talking about events that transpired within less than a month.

I don?t know exactly when China grounded its fleet, or when every other nation followed suit, but obviously the United States grounded 737s in the US within weeks of everyone else doing it.

I don?t know how really telling that is.

EDIT: I just looked it up. Trump ordered the grounding within a day or two of every other nation.

Again-I don?t know how really telling that is.

As I explained, this isn't a typical 737... the 737 MAX had new, larger engines that affected how it flew. and Boeing essentially cut a ton of safety corners to rush it to market.

The Lion Air crash was 10/28/18. I remember reading accounts about all this after that, that this was likely a design flaw and software issue, i.e. it would likely recur, and not pilot error or a natural disaster (one example from last November).

The Ethiopian Air crash was 3/10/19... 4 1/2 months later.

China, and then pretty much the rest of the world grounded all 737MAX airplanes after. The US was last, and the FAA initially was reluctant (LINK-O), when it should've been leading the way.

So it only took another plane crash, 157 more lives, and a worldwide panic attack with passengers freaking out about what plane their next flight was on, and regulators grounding all planes before "the market" decided Boeing needed to fix it...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Okay, I get it.

So I guess it’s on China, the FAA and everyone else for not doing something about it last fall.

And again - the US was last by a matter of hours - the article linked to in post #18 was published the day before China grounded its fleet.

 

[TheVictors]

Whatever you pinko Commie!

This is 'Murica! Sometimes you break a few eggs when making an omelet. So Boeing cut a few corners to compete with Airbus and now people have died ...ever heard of Capitalism?!

A FWIW, former head of Transportation who grounded the Boeing Dreamliner was on record IMMEDIATELY that the US should ground all 737-MAX planes until the issue was resolved. This was before anyone in the US said anything and after many European countries had already acted.


Shocking that this admin and gutted Govt didn't really have a response. Too busy grabbing pussies and making America great probably.