Both of These Can't Be True

[jwlcosu]

Only one or the other can be true:

1. The Trump campaign colluded with Russians in order to influence the outcome of the election. Post-election, then, Trump obstructed justice in order to dodge the allegation.

2. The DNC and rogue elements within the DOJ and FBI targeted Trump and used a false dossier to get a FISA warrant that enabled them to effectively spy on American citizens with the goal being first to influence the outcome of the election and then to overturn the result.

In a nutshell, those are the competing narratives. One or the other is true. One or the other is a lie. Both are pretty disastrous. I line up strongly on the side of the second. I could be wrong. I'm a little worried.

Whichever narrative is true, this story has to come out in full.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Lets make it easy. Conservatives will say 2, Liberals will say 1.

 

[Michchamp]

How about this for a nuanced take?

1) is not fully true. to what extent Trump jr., Roger Stone or some other jerkoff from Trump's rogue gallery did seek to meet with Russians for dirt on the Clinton campaign, or Trump has business dealings with shady Russian individuals is anybody's guess, but I do not believe in either case it lead to Trump's victory over Clinton.

Clinton was (Clinton IS) and unlikeable person who ran a terrible campaign that offered nothing to voters, besides more of the same neoliberal economic policies that have hurt the middle and lower classes: deregulation, tax cuts, laissex faire economics & outsourcing jobs through trade deals, and more money for the industrial defense complex. Notice: those are all the same things that the GOP wants.

people fell for it when Obama offered "hope," but his 8 years revealed that anybody vetted by the DNC is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and in practice going to ply the same socially and economically destructive policies Reagan did. Clinton's only chance to run on that platform and win was 2008. no one is going to buy it again.

2) may be true, but regardless the FBI/NSA/CIA have been spying on ALL American citizens, including political candidates, regularly, and this was first leaked in 2005 and confirmed and reported on, and later fully confirmed - with a bang - by Edward Snowden.

Republitard dickheads didn't care in 2005 when Bush was in office, and have routinely called Snowden a traitor and called for him to be tried for treason or summarily executed without trial, so Republitards have no moral, ideological or reasonable grounds to complain about domestic warrantless spying now, and should STFU and GFT.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Of course they can both be true.

 

[Michchamp]

Of course they can both be true.

don't question his logical reasoning skills. You'll trigger him.

 

[jwlcosu]

I get what you're both saying and having thought about it, agree there can be a degree of truth to each narrative. But face it, one of the narratives has to win. Whoever the bad guys are need to be crushed.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I get what you're both saying and having thought about it, agree there can be a degree of truth to each narrative. But face it, one of the narratives has to win. Whoever the bad guys are need to be crushed.

I made this point on the FISA thread already -

The Clintons and Trump are all bad guys. They've gotten away with heinous shit always. I don't see why anything is going to be different.

 

[tigermud]

I've chosen my side long ago. I could be wrong to but there ain't no turning back now, had a strange thought last night though.. What if both sides are all just rounded up and indicted and pence is left in charge when the dust settles. That scenario prolly avoids any CW but pence probably wouldn't win in 2020, some lib dem would get back in again and the market goes from unprecedented highs to unprecedented lows and we all end up in squalor still

 

[Michchamp]

I've chosen my side long ago. I could be wrong to but there ain't no turning back now, had a strange thought last night though.. What if both sides are all just rounded up and indicted and pence is left in charge when the dust settles. That scenario prolly avoids any CW but the market would still tank.

you can and should turn back now.

Pence will be Trump but w/out Mar-a-lago and all the tawdry botched plastic surgery "high society" types, strippers, prostitutes around all the time. the policies won't be any different.

there won't be a civil war. get real. there's not even any geographic divide between the two sides. and despite all the tough talk and macho posturing at rallies, how many "MAGA types" are really going to go to war over Trump getting impeached?

answer: very few, and they would all be killed in 2 seconds by the FBI/ATF or state police.

 

[tigermud]

you can and should turn back now.

Pence will be Trump but w/out Mar-a-lago and all the tawdry botched plastic surgery "high society" types, strippers, prostitutes around all the time. the policies won't be any different.

there won't be a civil war. get real. there's not even any geographic divide between the two sides. and despite all the tough talk and macho posturing at rallies, how many "MAGA types" are really going to go to war over Trump getting impeached?

answer: very few, and they would all be killed in 2 seconds by the FBI/ATF or state police.

ummm NO I am more worried about your side starting a CW if all those named in the soon to be released FISA memo are all eventually hauled off to the poke. You people are a bunch of foaming at the mouth hateful crazy bastards. Like this guy.

https://www.infowars.com/uncensored-foul-mouthed-liberals-fart-spit-throw-fists-at-reporters/

and no Pence is not nearly as america first anti globalist guy as trump, if anything happens to trump i'm selling everything into the lowest risk safest store and/or short funds ASAP without hesitation, as it will be over and years of decline will then start up again.

 

[jwlcosu]

ummm NO I am more worried about your side starting a CW if all those named in the soon to be released FISA memo are all eventually hauled off to the poke. You people are a bunch of foaming at the mouth hateful crazy bastards. Like this guy.

https://www.infowars.com/uncensored-foul-mouthed-liberals-fart-spit-throw-fists-at-reporters/

and no Pence is not nearly as america first anti globalist guy as trump, if anything happens to trump i'm selling everything into the lowest risk safest store and/or short funds ASAP without hesitation, as it will be over and years of decline will then start up again.

Don't think it's going to happen but if Trump goes down, you're correct, it'll be a bloodbath in the markets. It'll be Paul Krugman's market call in reverse. Can't believe that guy still has a job/readers.

 

[Michchamp]

oh so now you guys are stock pickers as well. got any hot tips?

 

[biggunsbob]

Lol..
I remember when the market was blasting under Obama (cleaning up Bushes mess) some on this board said that the president has minimum imput in the ups and downs of the market!! And when Brownback's Kansas style trickle down doesn't work for all Americans and crush the national debt even more we will see how the market goes. All blips are followed by gains normally right ... oh I know The Gop will go after SS, and Medicare..

 

[jwlcosu]

oh so now you guys are stock pickers as well. got any hot tips?

Better than Krugman. As for your question, low cost index funds. Not sexy but whatever the old man from Omaha says is good enough for me.

 

[tigermud]

Don't think it's going to happen but if Trump goes down, you're correct, it'll be a bloodbath in the markets. It'll be Paul Krugman's market call in reverse. Can't believe that guy still has a job/readers.

Agree, krugman is a freakin’ doofus and I’ve thought as much about him for years

 

[tigermud]

oh so now you guys are stock pickers as well. got any hot tips?

Cryptos are here to stay pick the right ones (easier said than done) wait 10 years. Gold may ultimely benefit from them as well for those that may be back by it

‘DOG’ when markets finally top and someday they will, when I don’t know, I’ve never been great trying to time tops and bottoms. Or if anything happens to trump stop and dump into cash and or DOG ASAP do not hesitate. Was into various MJ stocks for a few years before sessions started bad mouthing cannabis over a year ago, dumped em all and never looked back if sessions ever gets fired and replaced with someone not so archaic on it I’d get back into them. Sessions position on it is the one major item I’m in disagreement with trumps on and I wouldn’t mind if he got the boot

 

[turok]

After Bob and Bekah Mercer's acolytes took over the recently nominated Trump's campaign, and he started to bloviate about how the election would be "rigged" if he lost, and stating that he wanted the Russians to hack Clinton's campaign, that is when I knew that he was aware of what his campaign staff, BiL, and son were up to.

Drumpkopf just couldn't keep his stupid yapper shut, and damn near blurted out exactly what he was aware of that was going on in TT...he is by far the most embarrassing and mortifying moron who has ever been selected to be coronated as "King" of Murka.

I believe that his campaign wasn't corrupted UNTIL the Mercers took over control of it, and that there was nothing that those two wouldn't stoop to, in order to win. Bob Mercer has had 7 billion reasons why he needed Trump and his family in the White Trash House.

I can only imagine the howls of outrage from the RW, had any Dem president placed his family members in top security clearance positions, refused to release info about his tax-returns, and tweeted insults at Limbaugh. Hannity. Jones, Faux Ruse, the Heritage Foundation, Republican lawmakers, conservative judges, the families of dead military medal recipients...ect.

 

[biggunsbob]

After Bob and Bekah Mercer's acolytes took over the recently nominated Trump's campaign, and he started to bloviate about how the election would be "rigged" if he lost, and stating that he wanted the Russians to hack Clinton's campaign, that is when I knew that he was aware of what his campaign staff, BiL, and son were up to.

Drumpkopf just couldn't keep his stupid yapper shut, and damn near blurted out exactly what he was aware of that was going on in TT...he is by far the most embarrassing and mortifying moron who has ever been selected to be coronated as "King" of Murka.

I believe that his campaign wasn't corrupted UNTIL the Mercers took over control of it, and that there was nothing that those two wouldn't stoop to, in order to win. Bob Mercer has had 7 billion reasons why he needed Trump and his family in the White Trash House.

I can only imagine the howls of outrage from the RW, had any Dem president placed his family members in top security clearance positions, refused to release info about his tax-returns, and tweeted insults at Limbaugh. Hannity. Jones, Faux Ruse, the Heritage Foundation, Republican lawmakers, conservative judges, the families of dead military medal recipients...ect.

This is what in do not understand . If any democrats even came close to doing what Trump is doing the GOP'S FIXED news would blow a collective gasket. The zillions of conservative radio shows Like Rush would explode.
They are such hypocrites.

 

[sggatecl]

As I've gotten older I've come to notice that the only thing most people REALLY care about is money/the economy. Abortion, civil rights, gun control...all of these just seem like secondary bitching points. Put a little extra money in everyone's pockets and they'll turn a blind eye to just about everything.

 

[biggunsbob]

As I've gotten older I've come to notice that the only thing most people REALLY care about is money/the economy. Abortion, civil rights, gun control...all of these just seem like secondary bitching points. Put a little extra money in everyone's pockets and they'll turn a blind eye to just about everything.

I think you are right but its seems like this trickle down shit never gets to the goes to the workers. My wife is a Phlebotomist. She has been at Quest Diagnostic for around 9 years. She went to a Big hospital here in GR for a interview today thinking there would be more opportunity, and when the ladies interviewing her ask her what she made at Quest she told them and my wife said the look on her their faces told it all. The pay scale at this hospital was pathetic. Probably the worst of the three big hospitals here in GR. She had left Quest last March for a hospital job at a different hospital but they lied to my wife and she went back to quest after 10 weeks. Its just a shame CEO's, and owners do not take a lot less pay for their workers. Some do but most just want to look good..