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Cameron Maybin Traded to the Tigers

Are you suggesting that if a trade does result in a World Series victory then it is a fail??

But it has seemed to me that every move the Tigers have made has been met with negative feedback from you. Not that every move has had a positive effect on the team (cough)Pelfrey(cough). I just don't remember any moves made by the Tigers met with enthusiasm from you.

Zimmermann

Justin Wilson

Saltalamacchia

Fulmer

I was all for the Iglesias trade at the time

If you go back to those threads you won't see one negative from me. But I am only remembered for being negative. Which trade/signing that I was negative about, aside from Kinsler/Fielder, has worked in DET's favor? I read every thread/post (except for those I have on ignore) pretty much daily in the Tiger forum. I occasionally browse the Lions, Pistons and Redwings forum. And why is it the posters who primary post in other areas (i.e. Lions) that are calling me to task? There are posters who never post in the Tiger forum except to comment on me and/or previous posts I made.

Anyways, some of us would like the Tigers to win another World Series in our life time. And some us might not be here when it does happen. Sure I am critical right now. We were very, very close. And I don't see it happening in the next 5 years or so and I am disgruntled. OK..some of you think differently and believe that might still win it in the next couple of years.

It is no different than discussing whether the Lions will win a Super Bowl in my life time. I don't see that happening any time soon either. And yes, some tend to get excited about the Lions and some don't. I pretty much was disappointed when Barry retired and they hadn't done what they needed to go further.
 
Zimmermann

Justin Wilson

Saltalamacchia

Fulmer

I was all for the Iglesias trade at the time

If you go back to those threads you won't see one negative from me. But I am only remembered for being negative. Which trade/signing that I was negative about, aside from Kinsler/Fielder, has worked in DET's favor? I read every thread/post (except for those I have on ignore) pretty much daily in the Tiger forum. I occasionally browse the Lions, Pistons and Redwings forum. And why is it the posters who primary post in other areas (i.e. Lions) that are calling me to task? There are posters who never post in the Tiger forum except to comment on me and/or previous posts I made.

Anyways, some of us would like the Tigers to win another World Series in our life time. And some us might not be here when it does happen. Sure I am critical right now. We were very, very close. And I don't see it happening in the next 5 years or so and I am disgruntled. OK..some of you think differently and believe that might still win it in the next couple of years.

It is no different than discussing whether the Lions will win a Super Bowl in my life time. I don't see that happening any time soon either. And yes, some tend to get excited about the Lions and some don't. I pretty much was disappointed when Barry retired and they hadn't done what they needed to go further.

I just reread the Zimmermann thread. Your "positivity" included you disliking the no trade clause and saying he was a luxury that we couldn't afford. While I will say you said he was good value, you also said you prefer Sanchez over Zimmermann.

I sometimes like your contributions to the boards but it seems your reliance on metrics makes your contributions appear negative. I don't mean to single you out because you aren't the only person I feel is negative on here. If we only had one view on here(+ or -), it would be a very boring board.

Everyone here would like the Detroit sports teams to do well and no one is happy with a mediocre to losing season. World Series banners are the goal. We have spent like World Series contenders but the results aren't there.
 
I just reread the Zimmermann thread. Your "positivity" included you disliking the no trade clause and saying he was a luxury that we couldn't afford. While I will say you said he was good value, you also said you prefer Sanchez over Zimmermann.

I sometimes like your contributions to the boards but it seems your reliance on metrics makes your contributions appear negative. I don't mean to single you out because you aren't the only person I feel is negative on here. If we only had one view on here(+ or -), it would be a very boring board.

Everyone here would like the Detroit sports teams to do well and no one is happy with a mediocre to losing season. World Series banners are the goal. We have spent like World Series contenders but the results aren't there.

In my opinion, prior to the Zimmermann signing, the Tigers were well above their ability to sustain their payroll without adding more payroll. Acquiring Zimmermann, who is a really good pitcher, just compounds the problem when the inevitable happens. Hypothetically, they could have signed a Trout or Harper for $25-30 Mil a year and I wouldn't be happy with it. It isn't anything against those players, it is about the bubble that is about to burst, especially when Mr. I is no more or possibly sometime next year.

After the Zimmermann and Upton signings, I came across the news article concerning Detriot's media contract expiring after 2017 season. Their viewership had been declining since leading MLB in 2013. Without a good viewer rating, they are going to have a hard time negotiating premium money in their next contract. They need to try and stay competitive until that deal is made, hoping to maintain and/or increase viewership. I understand what they are doing (spending money, to possible get more money), but I don't like it. I also believe the dismantling will occur next year or at 2017 season end, hence why Upton had a 2-year opt out and J.D. Martinez was only extended for 2 years.

Everyone posts on a message board for some reason. Some take pleasure in belittling others and mock other posters. Personally, I have studied baseball statistics for over 40 years. That aren't many, if any, in my personal life that would appreciate my work in that area and about the Tigers. This is a venue for me to express that and I genuinely don't worry when others mock it. It is when they assault my character that is disturbing. They aren't my statistics, they are the players. I just post them and some take offense, mostly because it disparages a player they like.

Statistics are about historical performance. It doesn't predict future anomalies/outliers. There is a reason Sanchez went from being a good pitcher to now. It isn't like he had just one good year and is being compared to that (i.e. Alex Avila). Occasionally, a player like 2000 Darin Erstad has a fluke season and then expectations are that he is that player. Yet, his 3 years away before that season and his 3 years away after that season are virtually the same statistically. Yet, there were Tiger fans chomping at the bit to acquire him after the 2006 season. But Erstad is just an example. Statistics are not be all end all in player evaluations, but it does a better job then the "eye test". The "eye test" brought us Mike Pelfrey.
 
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Are the Tigers progressing or regressing? One or the other. There is no stasis. Personally, I think they are regressing. They reached a high-water mark in 2013 and have not improved since then.
 
Are the Tigers progressing or regressing? One or the other. There is no stasis. Personally, I think they are regressing. They reached a high-water mark in 2013 and have not improved since then.

100% agree. Since 2013 the window has been closing a little more each season. I feel it is to the point you could barely slide a piece of paper under it now. After this year the wheels come off. Just my 2 cents.
 
If we had only won in 2006 and or 2012 we would not all be so Salty on the Tigers but unless we hit Lightning in the bottle somehow this season the window appears closed on this group. We need a whole shift in thinking with this clud I feel. Build a club suited to Comerica . Fix the minor leagues. Man what is going to happen when Mr. I IS not around anymore ?
 
If we had only won in 2006 and or 2012 we would not all be so Salty on the Tigers but unless we hit Lightning in the bottle somehow this season the window appears closed on this group. We need a whole shift in thinking with this clud I feel. Build a club suited to Comerica . Fix the minor leagues. Man what is going to happen when Mr. I IS not around anymore ?

To me, 2013 was the year that the Tigers should have won the WS. I think the better teams won in 06 and 12, and I recognize that the Cards were barely above .500.
 
To me, 2013 was the year that the Tigers should have won the WS. I think the better teams won in 06 and 12, and I recognize that the Cards were barely above .500.

Yeah that really hurt too :(
 
Rebbiv I'm not mocking you in the slightest I'm saying you are completely incapable of admitting you are wrong. If you take that as a personal attack so be it. You don't really allow for others to have an opinion. That in and of itself is rude.

I get everyone's frustration. I do. I wanted a title. They're great. But I won't allow that frustration to make me belittle others opinion on a place that is supposed to be enjoyable.

You bring a lot of good in the form of information and it's laudable. Not taking anything from that at all.
 
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Rebbiv I'm not mocking you in the slightest I'm saying you are completely incapable of admitting you are wrong. If you take that as a personal attack so be it. You don't really allow for others to have an opinion. That in and of itself is rude.

I get everyone's frustration. I do. I wanted a title. They're great. But I won't allow that frustration to make me belittle others opinion on a place that is supposed to be enjoyable.

You bring a lot of good in the form of information and it's laudable. Not taking anything from that at all.


You want me to say I was wrong concerning the comparison of Infante and Kinsler using their statistics would be like saying the statistics were wrong. Not going to happen. I cannot change their statistics. You want me to say my opinion of the Kinsler/Fielder trade has changed, I already did last year and I shouldn't have to repeatedly state that every time someone shoves that same thread back in my face. Talk about rude.

I completely allow others to have an opinion and I don't know why you claim I don't. The appeal of a message board is the debate of those opinions, no? I have changed my opinion during a discussion when Mitch, KC or someone else points to some variable that I overlooked.

The problem here is so many want me to change my opinion to conform to theirs and then call me rigid. You want me to change my opinion, make a better compelling argument. You don't like my argument, then ignore it and move on.
 
I made the argument that Kinsler is a guy who hits better at home historically and that in and of itself has value to the team he plays for. You can't just dismiss that as meaningless when they play 81 games there. That's just going off what Kinsler did to that point (including his career worst season) and Infante coming off the absolute best of his career. You dismissed both of those factors.



Needless to say Kinsler has been immensely more productive by every possible measure and it isn't some outlier. He was a better player then and is a better player now.

But like I said you can't defer even the slightest point. So you have a lot of detractors as a result. Not because you don't make compelling points but because you won't yield ever.

Not sure what you do for a living but I will share what I do. I manage a grocery store. Now obviously I'm more intelligent than pretty much every employee right? Regardless people respond to humility. I admit to my staff when they've made a good point. I admit when I act hasty. Those things earn respect so when the time comes for me to make a point and drive it home they know I'm serious.

Now obviously that's real world stuff and this is just a web forum but people respond just the same.

Consider this the last time I will point this out to you. I will leave it be
 
Cameron Maybin turning in a good season so far. The best sign is his k/bb ratio.
 
I made the argument that Kinsler is a guy who hits better at home historically and that in and of itself has value to the team he plays for. You can't just dismiss that as meaningless when they play 81 games there. That's just going off what Kinsler did to that point (including his career worst season) and Infante coming off the absolute best of his career. You dismissed both of those factors.



Needless to say Kinsler has been immensely more productive by every possible measure and it isn't some outlier. He was a better player then and is a better player now.

But like I said you can't defer even the slightest point. So you have a lot of detractors as a result. Not because you don't make compelling points but because you won't yield ever.

Not sure what you do for a living but I will share what I do. I manage a grocery store. Now obviously I'm more intelligent than pretty much every employee right? Regardless people respond to humility. I admit to my staff when they've made a good point. I admit when I act hasty. Those things earn respect so when the time comes for me to make a point and drive it home they know I'm serious.

Now obviously that's real world stuff and this is just a web forum but people respond just the same.

Consider this the last time I will point this out to you. I will leave it be

Infante and Kinsler are a push, his exact words.

:ashamed:
 
Carl Crawford just got released. Rebbiv must be excited. Last three years away:

Crawford: .264 BAVG .304 OBP .372 SLG .676 OPS


Thats better than Gose and Maybin, can sign crawford to the league minimum. Should be a no-brainer right!
 
Carl Crawford just got released. Rebbiv must be excited. Last three years away:

Crawford: .264 BAVG .304 OBP .372 SLG .676 OPS


Thats better than Gose and Maybin, can sign crawford to the league minimum. Should be a no-brainer right!

How has Gose been doing in the minors? Haven't heard a peep about him since he was sent out.
 
I have been pleasantly surprised how good Maybin has been. I am not ready to say I was wrong about him but it is looking that way.
 
I have been pleasantly surprised how good Maybin has been. I am not ready to say I was wrong about him but it is looking that way.

He has been playing great but you won't be wrong about him. He had 2623 plate appearances prior to coming to the Tigers. He hit .256 with a .316 OBP in those plate appearances. The start to this season is a fluke. Don't get me wrong...I am happy he is playing so well but it will end. Now, he may play better than his career average, but this level of performance will end.
 
I am just glad Maybin can championship level CF and actually hit a little bit unlike Gose
 
He has been playing great but you won't be wrong about him. He had 2623 plate appearances prior to coming to the Tigers. He hit .256 with a .316 OBP in those plate appearances. The start to this season is a fluke. Don't get me wrong...I am happy he is playing so well but it will end. Now, he may play better than his career average, but this level of performance will end.


The encouraging thing is that he is making contact...while .432 babip is unsustainable it's not like an Austin Jackson situation where he is striking out every four at bats. Only 10 K's in 102 at bats.
 
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