Condi Rice the Triple Threat VP Option

[tsmith7559]

You fail English? That's unpossible.

Anyways, they can already choose to send their kids to private schools, private religious schools, or home school them.

that was enough of a "choice" for most of this country's history.

but still fund a failing public school system that there trying to escape from??? does that make any sense at all?

Look at the majority of inner city schools districts...a miserable failure yet dems want to keep throwing money at it........
BTW, I dont use spell check, I type(badly) and post, you can figure it out. Ive seen texting worst than my typing. If you're the grammar police, oh well

 

[Michchamp]

you make it sound like school districts are failing despite being well-funded; that's the problem: they are not well-funded, which is why they're failing. Look at per pupil spending in Detroit and compare it to Bloomfield Hills, and try to argue your position again...

we've been gutting educational spending since the 80's at all levels and we're seeing the results now. In college, standards have only stayed high because the students have had to foot the bill, more and more as unsubsidized loans that then cripple them for life... leaving them unable to afford houses, consumer goods, etc. at the primary level, k-12, it's been a disaster.

 

[Michchamp]

some city school districts work fine. some don't. has nothing to do with unions, OR the actual conditions of the school. typically politicians (dem or repub) define a district as "failing" when they want to gut funding so they can give it to someone else, e.g. a company that runs charter schools that donated significantly to their electoral campaign...

and of course, certain segments of the population unquestionably support these initiatives because they've been well-trained to reflexively assume certain things are always bad: unions, minorities, (esp. minorities in unions)...

 

[tsmith7559]

some city school districts work fine. some don't. has nothing to do with unions, OR the actual conditions of the school. typically politicians (dem or repub) define a district as "failing" when they want to gut funding so they can give it to someone else, e.g. a company that runs charter schools that donated significantly to their electoral campaign...

and of course, certain segments of the population unquestionably support these initiatives because they've been well-trained to reflexively assume certain things are always bad: unions, minorities, (esp. minorities in unions)...

looking for results.....whats in the best interest of the child and vouchers is one way to go

 

[byco42]

There is certainly no relationship between graduation rates and per-pupil expenditure. That's documented. So the "gutting spending" argument to explain why schools are "failing" is groundless.

 

[Michchamp]

There is certainly no relationship between graduation rates and per-pupil expenditure. That's documented. So the "gutting spending" argument to explain why schools are "failing" is groundless.

there isn't? Not just talking rubber-stamped graduations either; want to see college-ready kids.

 

[KAWDUP]

there isn't? Not just talking rubber-stamped graduations either; want to see college-ready kids.

Why is college ready kids the standard?

How about being ready for life, and/or ready to learn a trade?

 

[Michchamp]

Why is college ready kids the standard?

How about being ready for life, and/or ready to learn a trade?

even better. of course that costs money...

and of course, "at risk" kids in inner cities might require more help (again $$$... for after school programs, counselors, security guards, metal detectors...) than kids of comfortable homes in the suburbs.

I'd argue we've underfunded public schools in most areas; per pupil spending is a way to measure this, but of course, it's not a matter of just spending more; it's a matter of spending enough.

 

[cheeno]

even better. of course that costs money...

and of course, "at risk" kids in inner cities might require more help (again $$$... for after school programs, counselors, security guards, metal detectors...) than kids of comfortable homes in the suburbs.

I'd argue we've underfunded public schools in most areas; per pupil spending is a way to measure this, but of course, it's not a matter of just spending more; it's a matter of spending enough.

and spending efficiently.

 

[KAWDUP]

http://www.mackinac.org/12891

This is probably just a right wing conspiracy theory, and the numbers presented on this site are from 2007, but as far as Michigan goes, there are some who do not believe public schools are as underfunded as you say.

 

[Michchamp]

http://www.mackinac.org/12891

This is probably just a right wing conspiracy theory, ...

it probably is.

maybe you could find a less biased source that falls between a "Right-wing, anti-union activist organization funded by rich assholes who insist that any tax above $0.01 is too high and wish slavery was still legal" and the National Education Assoc?

 

[cheeno]

it probably is.

maybe you could find a less biased source that falls between a "Right-wing, anti-union activist organization funded by rich assholes who insist that any tax above $0.01 is too high and wish slavery was still legal" and the National Education Assoc?

So this is what the Mackinac considers "lavish" pay increases? Less than 65K for a Ed D. with 45 semesters under their belt at the highest level of increase? Am I reading this right?

Same source:
http://www.mackinac.org/images.aspx?ID=11291#3049

 

[KAWDUP]

I doubt they wish slavery was still legal. Find me a link for that one chief, and I'll go looking for a less biased presentation of the per student data than the Mackinac Center.

 

[Michchamp]

So this is what the Mackinac considers "lavish" pay increases? Less than 65K for a Ed D. with 45 semesters under their belt at the highest level of increase? Am I reading this right?

Same source:
http://www.mackinac.org/images.aspx?ID=11291#3049

yeah... outrageous huh? clearly the biggest problem facing the country.

Meanwhile, things like this, this, this, or this? No big deal... I think government was to blame or something...

 

[KAWDUP]

No, Michchamp is right about where they lean. They do stuff like this.

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16789

I was just pointing to the greater than $11,000 per student number and how administrative costs for the enormous school districts far surpassed the administrative costs for smaller districts and had much better test scores. Why couldn't the Detroit Public Schools be broken up into smaller districts? What is the advantage of paying so much more for administering the district if we don't really get any benefit from keeping it all as one?

 

[KAWDUP]

yeah... outrageous huh? clearly the biggest problem facing the country.

Meanwhile, things like this, this, this, or this? No big deal... I think government was to blame or something...

Now you're just deflecting. Of course the financial industry is a bigger problem, but that isn't the one we were discusisng just now is it?

 

[Michchamp]

Now you're just deflecting. Of course the financial industry is a bigger problem, but that isn't the one we were discusisng just now is it?

just attacking the credibility of your source. actually, my attacks may be gratuitous at this point, since no one has defended them yet, even you.

 

[Michchamp]

I doubt they wish slavery was still legal. Find me a link for that one chief, and I'll go looking for a less biased presentation of the per student data than the Mackinac Center.

I don't think I could find a link on that, but I should pipe down. Wouldn't want to give them any ideas...

 

[KAWDUP]

just attacking the credibility of your source. actually, my attacks may be gratuitous at this point, since no one has defended them yet.

right - but then I posted this. You refuting something here?

<<I was just pointing to the greater than $11,000 per student number and how administrative costs for the enormous school districts far surpassed the administrative costs for smaller districts and had much better test scores. Why couldn't the Detroit Public Schools be broken up into smaller districts? What is the advantage of paying so much more for administering the district if we don't really get any benefit from keeping it all as one?>>

 

[Michchamp]

right - but then I posted this. You refuting something here?

<<I was just pointing to the greater than $11,000 per student number and how administrative costs for the enormous school districts far surpassed the administrative costs for smaller districts and had much better test scores. Why couldn't the Detroit Public Schools be broken up into smaller districts? What is the advantage of paying so much more for administering the district if we don't really get any benefit from keeping it all as one?>>

I don't know; maybe DPS could be broken up? Maybe there are reasons why it shouldn't be? Maybe the costs are justified?

guessing though that most of the "smaller districts" are in rural areas where land and services are cheaper.

unlike some of the people here, I'm not going to be so harsh on the DPS for school performance. Kids I grew up with - both public and private school attendees - didn't have to dodge bullets, gang recruitment, and the like just to get to class in the morning. and they had parents that supported them, fed them, clothed them, etc. So suburban/rural districts have an easier job to begin with...