Dirty Politics Exposed

[Monster]

And there goes a thread in which I thought we could have common ground. damn.

 

[TheVictors]

This is perfect. Rocky Mountain High goes all nuclear and TSmith gets the lecture!

Sometimes the Truth hurts....


you bet it does!

 

[tinselwolverine]

And there goes a thread in which I thought we could have common ground. damn.

Put me down for voting that what was shown in the OP video looked like a load of crap.

 

[zyxt9]

that's ridiculous. no government office anywhere is shutting down a website over a $1000 bet. or even 10 $1,000 bets.

not even on their radar.

Is it legal? No it is not. Therefore the bet was illegal. Can elrod go to court to claim the money? No he cannot. So despite your trying to nullify my points, fact is the bet should never be considered legitimate.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think it's not illegal for mayors of cities who have teams that are playing each other for a professional championship to make a very low value nonmonetary wager, like a bag of potatoes against a bag of apples.

 

[zyxt9]

I think it's not illegal for mayors of cities who have teams that are playing each other for a professional championship to make a very low value nonmonetary wager, like a bag of potatoes against a bag of apples.

LOL...true, but if they placed a $1000 bet the IRS would want the tax revenue off of it, right? Personally, I've never understood the $600 (as I recall) cut off point. To my knowledge it hasn't changed from that in a very long time and considering inflation, wages, and other factors it seems to me it should be more like $6000...but that could be because living in Brooklyn $6000 has about the same value as $600 in a few other areas of the US...like...the desert and some other remote places.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Is it legal? No it is not. Therefore the bet was illegal. Can elrod go to court to claim the money? No he cannot. So despite your trying to nullify my points, fact is the bet should never be considered legitimate.

Legality and legitimacy are two different things. There are all sorts of non-legally binding commitments out there. If you agree to break the law, and then don't, you've broken your word.

 

[zyxt9]

Legality and legitimacy are two different things. There are all sorts of non-legally binding commitments out there. If you agree to break the law, and then don't, you've broken your word.

I'm not denying he went back on his word; however, since there is no legal way to make him pay for the bet, that pretty much negates it in the first place. Add in that the Mods should never have allowed a form of betting on a message board. The whole thing should just be forgotten about and everyone should move on. It is pretty silly to demand a person on a message board to pay up on a bet made on the message board. If you want the bet to be legit, then find a bookie or some other (para)professional who will go and get the money if necessary. A message board is a silly place to make a bet and expect payment. If someone actually honored the bet, they would have greater than expected fortitude. The fact the board is basically ganging up on tsmith is just as silly.

Now if they went to Vegas for example, they would have been forced to put their money into a pot, winner take all (minus the house's take and taxes). That would have been a legally binding bet. Notice how the money would have been in the pot prior to the event in question being finalized? That's another piece to the illegitimate nature of "the bet". They could have had any number of 3rd party responsible people from the board collect the bet money and then deliver it to the winner of the bet. That did not happen. If no money is collected prior to the event, there is no bet placed.

Don't you guys play poker? The money goes into the pot and THEN the cards are flipped, right? At any point prior a person can concede any money already put in, but the winner cannot go after any money not put into the pot. There are so many gamblers on this site, it astounds me that no one recognizes how NO BET was ever actually placed because no money was placed in a neutral location overseen by a 3rd party responsible entity.

Just because a person says they are willing to bet, until they have put their money into that neutral location, no bet has been actually made. You can call him out all you want, but there was no bet ever made regardless of words typed into a message board.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Just because a person says they are willing to bet, until they have put their money into that neutral location, no bet has been actually made. You can call him out all you want, but there was no bet ever made regardless of words typed into a message board.

People make bets all the time and don't pay up until afterwards. This paragraph contradicts the first line of your response "I'm not denying he went back on his word"

 

[Gulo Blue]

FYI, from various posts, here's the main thread:http://detroitsportsforum.com/showthread.php?t=9288


tsmith:$1,000 on 2012?????

tsmith:I'm waiting.........................

elrod:$1,000 on 2012????? You serious? I don't even like Barry and with a grand on the line I still won't vote for him, but I think I might take you up on that wager if you mean it.

elrod:So Smitty...you serious about this wager or not?

tsmith:yes, I'm serious

elrod:Let's do it!

tsmithk... lets get someone to hold the money....how about Mitchrapp?

elrodoesn't matter to me either way...I'd trust you to send it directly to me if you lost and I've never squelched on a wager in my life, but however you want to work it is fine...

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/ar...hp/t-6731.html

tsmith:I'll make the same offer that Elrod took...$1,000..put your money where your mouth is libby

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/sh...?t=7182&page=2


byco: Did t-smith bet on the electoral vote differential with someone here?
tsmith:Yes sir...Elrod... I got Romney

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/ar...hp/t-5277.html

tsmith:sorry, drove all over SE Michigan today and didn't see one station under $3.79, so one $4.04.
Michigan is averaging $3.80. Elrod, save your money, you'll need it in Nov when you fork over the $1,000

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/sh...d.php?p=173520

 

[zyxt9]

People make bets all the time and don't pay up until afterwards. This paragraph contradicts the first line of your response "I'm not denying he went back on his word"

They may have the fortitude to honor the previous suggested bet, but unless the bet is placed into a neutral location overseen by a reputable 3rd party, it is not a legit bet that has any grounds that it be honored. It is why bookies have to threaten force (broken limbs, dead relatives, etc.) If bookies collected the money prior to the event's conclusion, there would not need to be such threats, right? And it's one thing if two guys are at a bar and one says to the guy next to him, bet ya $10 bucks on such and such....this was an internet message board...seriously, if someone honors a bet from a message board they have outstanding integrity worthy of the military academies (and even then, I've known plenty of academy students and grads who lacked the actual integrity demanded by those institutions). To expect a loser to pay off a message board bet is to set one's self up for disappointment.

The requirement for all legalized gambling is for the money to be put into a neutral location specifically due to people historically backing out. Call him out all you want, an official bet was not made, nor could it be made on a message board. I would say the same if Elrod had lost and decided not to pay up. Lesson to be learned, don't bet with tsmith unless the money is handled by a neutral 3rd party...and better still, through some channels other than a message board.

 

[Gulo Blue]

They may have the fortitude to honor the previous suggested bet, but unless the bet is placed into a neutral location overseen by a reputable 3rd party, it is not a legit bet that has any grounds that it be honored. It is why bookies have to threaten force (broken limbs, dead relatives, etc.) If bookies collected the money prior to the event's conclusion, there would not need to be such threats, right? And it's one thing if two guys are at a bar and one says to the guy next to him, bet ya $10 bucks on such and such....this was an internet message board...seriously, if someone honors a bet from a message board they have outstanding integrity worthy of the military academies (and even then, I've known plenty of academy students and grads who lacked the actual integrity demanded by those institutions). To expect a loser to pay off a message board bet is to set one's self up for disappointment.

The requirement for all legalized gambling is for the money to be put into a neutral location specifically due to people historically backing out. Call him out all you want, an official bet was not made, nor could it be made on a message board. I would say the same if Elrod had lost and decided not to pay up. Lesson to be learned, don't bet with tsmith unless the money is handled by a neutral 3rd party...and better still, through some channels other than a message board.

These are fine guidelines. Good precautions to take. Very practical. It's really no surprise though that bookies have to take such precautions. But it doesn't matter with regard to this discussion. Rarely, you see people selling thing by leaving a lock box out with their goods asking people to be honest. The fact that they don't take precautions to ensure there's no theft doesn't mean it's not stealing if you don't pay.

It doesn't change the fact that tsmith welched on a bet. The legality is completely irrelevant. The lack of precautions is completely irrelevant. An agreement was made and broken.

 

[Michchamp]

They may have the fortitude to honor the previous suggested bet, but unless the bet is placed into a neutral location overseen by a reputable 3rd party, it is not a legit bet that has any grounds that it be honored. It is why bookies have to threaten force (broken limbs, dead relatives, etc.) If bookies collected the money prior to the event's conclusion, there would not need to be such threats, right? And it's one thing if two guys are at a bar and one says to the guy next to him, bet ya $10 bucks on such and such....this was an internet message board...seriously, if someone honors a bet from a message board they have outstanding integrity worthy of the military academies (and even then, I've known plenty of academy students and grads who lacked the actual integrity demanded by those institutions). To expect a loser to pay off a message board bet is to set one's self up for disappointment.

The requirement for all legalized gambling is for the money to be put into a neutral location specifically due to people historically backing out. Call him out all you want, an official bet was not made, nor could it be made on a message board. I would say the same if Elrod had lost and decided not to pay up. Lesson to be learned, don't bet with tsmith unless the money is handled by a neutral 3rd party...and better still, through some channels other than a message board.

you're telling us gambling is illegal, people don't pay bets, and that's why bookies sometimes resort to violence... quit wasting internet space, idiot.

 

[Michchamp]

FYI, from various posts, here's the main thread:http://detroitsportsforum.com/showthread.php?t=9288


tsmith:$1,000 on 2012?????

tsmith:I'm waiting.........................

elrod:$1,000 on 2012????? You serious? I don't even like Barry and with a grand on the line I still won't vote for him, but I think I might take you up on that wager if you mean it.

elrod:So Smitty...you serious about this wager or not?

tsmith:yes, I'm serious

elrod:Let's do it!

tsmithk... lets get someone to hold the money....how about Mitchrapp?

elrodoesn't matter to me either way...I'd trust you to send it directly to me if you lost and I've never squelched on a wager in my life, but however you want to work it is fine...

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/ar...hp/t-6731.html

tsmith:I'll make the same offer that Elrod took...$1,000..put your money where your mouth is libby

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/sh...?t=7182&page=2


byco: Did t-smith bet on the electoral vote differential with someone here?
tsmith:Yes sir...Elrod... I got Romney

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/ar...hp/t-5277.html

tsmith:sorry, drove all over SE Michigan today and didn't see one station under $3.79, so one $4.04.
Michigan is averaging $3.80. Elrod, save your money, you'll need it in Nov when you fork over the $1,000

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/sh...d.php?p=173520

LOL, this is my favorite part:

"I don't even like Barry and with a grand on the line I still won't vote for him, but I think I might take you up on that wager if you mean it."
​

that's gold right there.

I could swear tLiar has used the whole "wanna bet?" line as an argument technique on a number of occasions, but when I look for "tsmith + bet" I only find the elrod thread, or others mocking him for welching. maybe I just imagined it?

betting as an internet argument technique could be added to logical fallacy chart. I don't think it fits any existing category really.

though you can only really use it once if you don't honor your bet.

 

[zyxt9]

Nothing you stated requires tsmith to pay up. Sorry, there is nothing other than personal integrity holding him to it. Unless elrod wants to pursue some type of recourse...

 

[Michchamp]

Nothing you stated requires tsmith to pay up. Sorry, there is nothing other than personal integrity holding him to it. Unless elrod wants to pursue some type of recourse...

when did anyone here say otherwise?

you were the one who started the discussion about gambling being illegal, the government shutting down this site, etc.

it's always been about personal integrity & how Mr. The-Minorities-are-all-on-welfare-and-bad-and-I'm-a-good-christian-hard-working-rich-Republican-self-employed-business-owner didn't pass muster...

 

[Thumb]

Nothing you stated requires tsmith to pay up. Sorry, there is nothing other than personal integrity holding him to it. Unless elrod wants to pursue some type of recourse...

Jesus I wonder if you can even read sometimes.

All the shit tstupid gets on this forum is 100% about personal integrity. Elrod is never getting that money and everyone here knows it, this is not about money, it's about a lying, welching, reneging, honorless waste of DNA who continues to post here and pretend, despite overwhelming evidence (much of it just directly quoted by Red) that the bet did not exist.

How in the fuck you have gone off on all these tangent arguments about this site getting shut down for illegal betting, bookies collecting, or any other nonsense you have spouted off about in this thread truly baffles me.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Nothing you stated requires tsmith to pay up. Sorry, there is nothing other than personal integrity holding him to it. Unless elrod wants to pursue some type of recourse...

What do you think personal integrity is?

 

[tsmith7559]

Please cancel my account

 

[zyxt9]

you're telling us gambling is illegal, people don't pay bets, and that's why bookies sometimes resort to violence... quit wasting internet space, idiot.

You r an idiot for thinking he has to pay up. If elrod was the one demanding it, that's one thing, but as I recall he has already washed his hands of the issue.

People don't pay up for services, or don't fi ish jobs they agreed to. No contract was signed here. No 3rd party was used to make the bet legit. You guys act like you've never seen people get screwed over by other people due to lack of integrity. Stop wasting internet space you clueless wonder. If it was a legit bet, money would have been put down before the event was final. You all are bitching because someone went back on their word. That happens all the time, yet you are holding onto this from 3 years ago when you were not the one's screwed. Hell, I've seen legally binding cases where people never paid up. It isn't your money for starters, you can block tsmith if it bothers you so much, but you guys are the ones wasting internet space by constantly bringing it up. Move on already. He is never going to pay it, time to acknowledge. You've tried the public shaming route, didn't change a think. Of he lacks the integrity to back up his word/bet/whatever, don't interact with him. Or come to face the reality that it is more likely you will win the powerball than see a message board bet honored. As a lawyer, you should recognize there is no legal grounds by which he has to pay up. As a superior-minded/anti-violence person, I can't imagine you recommend or encourage a bookie-type beatdown. So why is this so important to continue harping on? Talk about wasting internet space...sheesh.