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durrrr iss cold outside! so much fer global WARMING!

Michchamp

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
34,212
cold.png


posted only because I'm tired of hearing idiots say this same shit.
 
Well if it's any consolation to you we've been having substantially above average temperatures here in Southern California for January.

Gov. Brown just officially declared a state of drought. Just way too many sunny days.
 
Well if it's any consolation to you we've been having substantially above average temperatures here in Southern California for January.

Gov. Brown just officially declared a state of drought. Just way too many sunny days.

that is consolation to me.

I'm sick of shoveling snow, and being cold everywhere I go.

our heating bill last month was insane.
 
ours was too, and its not been as cold here as in MI. stupid electric heat...
 
78 degrees in Sacramento yesterday. 70ish for the last two weeks and forseeable future. No rain. No snow for the mountains. Sac is usually in the 40's this time of year and the gov has declared this a drought. Water emergency. In 13 years, ive never seen it this warm in january. I dont understand global warming doubters. What is the problem with trying to make energy safer, the world cleaner, and cheaper for our kids and grand kids.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/21/california-drought-photos_n_4639222.html
 
Great here in Western Arizona. It's been pretty much constant mid-70's the past couple weeks. They say that's above average for this time of the year.
 
But...are you having a drought?

I haven't checked. But I do know average rain fall, Phoenix is 2nd in the US behind Las Vegas. Of course I'm about 35-40 minutes Phoenix.

Can't imagine that matters much but I haven't seen rain in some time.
 
78 degrees in Sacramento yesterday. 70ish for the last two weeks and forseeable future. No rain. No snow for the mountains. Sac is usually in the 40's this time of year and the gov has declared this a drought. Water emergency. In 13 years, ive never seen it this warm in january. I dont understand global warming doubters. What is the problem with trying to make energy safer, the world cleaner, and cheaper for our kids and grand kids.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/21/california-drought-photos_n_4639222.html

What's wrong with making energy safer and cheaper?

Naked greed and corruption, most likely.

Japan's energy provider TEPCO, was supposed to have begun removing those spent nuclear fuel rods from the crippled and structurally unstable Fukushima reactor #4 in early December. It is an extremely dangerous and delicate task, b/c of the potential for error which could cause a meltdown to begin in the pool where the tons of rods are stored. I don't trust that company and am very concerned about why there is virtually nothing being reported about their progress, if any.
 
What's wrong with making energy safer and cheaper?

Naked greed and corruption, most likely.

Japan's energy provider TEPCO, was supposed to have begun removing those spent nuclear fuel rods from the crippled and structurally unstable Fukushima reactor #4 in early December. It is an extremely dangerous and delicate task, b/c of the potential for error which could cause a meltdown to begin in the pool where the tons of rods are stored. I don't trust that company and am very concerned about why there is virtually nothing being reported about their progress, if any.

I said nothing of nuclear power.

Besides, you say that like oil companies aren't corrupt as hell.
 
Mitch, you gotta shrink the suh pic in your sig. It's way too big.
 
Mitch, you gotta shrink the suh pic in your sig. It's way too big.

Sorry. Someone asked how to post a pic in the signature and couldn't do it so I posted Suh to show him it works. Just forgot to remove it..
 
Last time I was in a real-world argument with a denier (which is very different from an internet argument) I short-circuited the thing right off the bat by focusing on CO2 levels and not saying a thing about the temperature. For whatever reason, nobody denies that we've increased the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. And that alone is incredible. We changed the chemical composition of the entire atmosphere of the Earth. It's just astounding. That was the end of the discussion.

Now, that's a really dangerous experiment to try. Maybe some people have learned to think it doesn't matter what the composition of the atmosphere is, but imagine if most of the world had never contributed to that at all. What if we knew that the atmosphere had changed and it was entirely caused by communist nations? You think people would be cool with that?
 
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Levels have risen by 85 PPM in 50 years, from 315 to 400. It's a definite spike. Max concentration exposure for people is 10,000 PPM in 8 hours TLV and 30,000 PPM in 15 minutes. So the imminent danger is not present. Eventually we'll sort it out in time. There are certain areas of the world (eastern europe and China) where breathing definitely is a challenge, but those governments are not that interested in making changes for the moment.
 
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Levels have risen by 85 PPM in 50 years, from 315 to 400. It's a definite spike. Max concentration exposure for people is 10,000 PPM in 8 hours TLV and 30,000 PPM in 15 minutes. So the imminent danger is not present. Eventually we'll sort it out in time. There are certain areas of the world (eastern europe and China) where breathing definitely is a challenge, but those governments are not that interested in making changes for the moment.

The levels that kill people in 8 hours had better be irrelevant to the discussion!
 
the best analogy I've read about is the proverbial frog in the slowly-warming pot of water.

you don't notice the changes because they're gradual, until all of the sudden you're dead and cooked. well... intelligent people who concern themselves with studying the world do notice the changes, but compared to the trillions of dollars in the fossil fuel industry & the influence that can buy... being intelligent doesn't mean shit.

I've read we're already past the point of no return, and that even if we cut emissions to zero now and curbed the population growth & more importantly, consumption of resources/person... we'd still be screwed. it would be interesting to read projections of what will actually happen, going forward. some regions will have enough rain & reasonable climate to continue growing food. others will not. will people all move to the regions that can sustain life & ruin those too? or will they shut the doors on them and keep them out?
 
A_Trajectory_Through_Phase_Space_in_a_Lorenz_Attractor.gif


I know I've tried to describe this before, but I found a cool gif that helps. The plot above is a simple 4-d curve. It's exists in x,y,z, and t. You give it a time, t=4, for example, and it spits out values for x,y, and z. It's really simple, like 7 lines of code if you just want a plot. But it's an example of a chaotic system. We could imagine for the sake of analogy that the x-axis represents the average global temperature. It doesn't, this isn't a weather model, it's far too simple, but let's pretend it's a weather model because it exhibits chaotic behavior, just like climate models do. If each loop was a year, you can see there are two general states it can cycle through. One could represent the weather we're used to and the other could be an ice age. What's tricky is that if you don't understand the entirety of the system, you can't really make predictions based on trends. You'll see a few loops in a row on one side, and one loop will go high and the next will go low and then it'll be a loop in-between the two that triggers a jump to the other loop. You can't look at where you're at and guess when there will be a huge jump to the other state just based on knowing where you are on one axis.

If we're talking about climate, what are the axes? How many are there? State of the art models have mountains of data, like what? I'd guess ocean currents, plant growth, plankton density, terrain and mountains, the magnetic field of the planet, the history of the sun's output...100's of things. And the smallest combination of the right factors could represent a tipping point, even though they all fall within ranges we've seen before.

Chaos is a bitch.
 
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