Election Aftermath

[byco42]

They brought up the precedent of the impeachments of Belknap and Blount. Blount had been expelled when he was impeached (by founding fathers) and Belknap resigned and was tried afterwards. The Blount case was dismissed because they didn't think he counted as a civil servant as a Senator, but not because he had already been expelled.

Blount was expelled, then impeached, then the trial was halted. Then the Senate declared a.) Blount was not a civil officer, and b.) rejected that Blount's plea to dismiss the charges "ought to be overruled."

Then, in a separate vote, the Senate claimed it had no jurisdiction over him. This seems to support the case for not proceeding with Trump's trial.

If you equate "leaving office" with "expelled" and the manor of no longer serving is irrelevant.

 

[Gulo Blue]

So the House impeached a Senator and the Senate determined that Senators can't be impeached. That's kind of funny.

 

[byco42]

So the House impeached a Senator and the Senate determined that Senators can't be impeached. That's kind of funny.

That seems to be the "precedent."

 

[Gulo Blue]

Blount was expelled, then impeached, then the trial was halted. Then the Senate declared a.) Blount was not a civil officer, and b.) rejected that Blount's plea to dismiss the charges "ought to be overruled."

Then, in a separate vote, the Senate claimed it had no jurisdiction over him. This seems to support the case for not proceeding with Trump's trial.

If you equate "leaving office" with "expelled" and the manor of no longer serving is irrelevant.

They said legislative officers couldn't be impeached; executive branch is fair game.
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/01/...rial-think-belknap-not-blount/comment-page-1/

 

[Michchamp]

I still don't feel like this is worth paying attention to.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I still don't feel like this is worth paying attention to.

I can see that...I feel like the outcomes is already clear. It doesn't look like there are any bombshells to drop. No minds will change generally speaking.

 

[byco42]

They said legislative officers couldn't be impeached; executive branch is fair game.

Did it? Or that expelled legislative officers can't be impeached, too? Was Blount an exception or a precedent?

Even the language in the link, in my opinion, has not settled the matter.

Link

This is a link to the list of expelled Senators. 15 have been expelled; 14 for "supporting the Confederacy."

 

[byco42]

I still don't feel like this is worth paying attention to.

On the contrary, it deserves our scrutiny.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Did it? Or that expelled legislative officers can't be impeached, too? Was Blount an exception or a precedent?

Even the language in the link, in my opinion, has not settled the matter.

Link

This is a link to the list of expelled Senators. 15 have been expelled; 14 for "supporting the Confederacy."

The last two paragraphs from that link say members of Congress are not officers of the United States and likely cannot be impeached.

 

[Gulo Blue]

On the contrary, it deserves our scrutiny.

It seems like history has already showed us political BS will win the day, if after voting that they did have jurisdiction to impeach, members voted not to convict based on their belief that they didn't have jurisdiction.

 

[byco42]

The last two paragraphs from that link say members of Congress are not officers of the United States and likely cannot be impeached.

There you are. Ever the space for interpretation.

 

[byco42]

It seems like history has already showed us political BS will win the day, if after voting that they did have jurisdiction to impeach, members voted not to convict based on their belief that they didn't have jurisdiction.

I'd rather that the vote be decided on the merits, but that, too, will be considered "political". Even as "Impeachment" is considered a "political process", but with an entirely different connotation.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The fact that he let it go on so long before saying anything is pretty damning.

 

[Michchamp]

On the contrary, it deserves our scrutiny.

At this point, it's obvious our institutions of government are hopelessly corrupt, and there really are no institutional solutions to this; the other power structures that could conceiveably counter-balance the government & push for reform, i.e. the private sector (in this case, large multi-national corporations) & the military industrial complex are the very ones that corrupted it.

 

[byco42]

At this point, it's obvious our institutions of government are hopelessly corrupt, and there really are no institutional solutions to this; the other power structures that could conceiveably counter-balance the government & push for reform, i.e. the private sector (in this case, large multi-national corporations) & the military industrial complex are the very ones that corrupted it.

I'm never surrendering my sovereignty. Just keep holding up the mirror.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm never surrendering my sovereignty. Just keep holding up the mirror.

My plan is that if I'm still alive when the Leviathan falls apart, position myself ahead of time to avoid getting crushed to death by the falling pieces.

 

[Gulo Blue]

How's this for moving goalposts? I think Trump could have prevented this and I think he had a Constitutional duty to prevent it if he could.

 

[Michchamp]

How's this for moving goalposts? I think Trump could have prevented this and I think he had a Constitutional duty to prevent it if he could.

We don't impeach presidents for violating the Constitution though. If we did, there would be a President Cheney (who also would have been impeached).

 

[Gulo Blue]

We don't impeach presidents for violating the Constitution though. If we did, there would be a President Cheney (who also would have been impeached).

Yeah, probably can't impeach for that, but what did they try to do to Clinton over Benghazi? This must rise to the level of that accusation of inaction.

 

[sggatecl]

More Democrat hijinx to sabotage the 2024 campaign of the greatest president since Reagan.

Georgia's biggest county launches criminal probe into Trump efforts to influence election