Election Aftermath

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Ashley Babbit is the only person that was murdered in the mostly peaceful insurrection.

Ashley Babbit wasn't murdered.

She died of stupidity.

 

[Spartanmack]

Ashley Babbit wasn't murdered.

She died of stupidity.

Pretty sure it was the bullet from the murderer?s gun that killed her.

 

[tomdalton22]

Ashley Babbit wasn't murdered.

She died of stupidity.

I guess we can say the same for every black guy that gets shot by a cop.

Problem solved.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I guess we can say the same for every black guy that gets shot by a cop.

Problem solved.

Maybe.

The cop who shot Ashli was a black guy.

So we can chalk Ashli?s shooting up to one more racist cop.

 

[byco42]

Ashley Babbit wasn't murdered.

She died of stupidity.

Rather disconnected and non-empathetic response, given that a person died.

I am not familiar with the DC laws regarding the use of disproportionate force, or if firing a gun through a locked door is legal there. I will say that the officer who fired his handgun may not have used his best judgement, given that there were many others in the line of fire.

I do know, however, that Union soldiers were extending their hands to Confederate soldiers at The Angle on July 3, 1863 during Pickett's Charge and helping them to their side of the line.

Seems that this killing was, in my opinion, premature in response to the threat.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Rather disconnected and non-empathetic response, given that a person died.

I am not familiar with the DC laws regarding the use of disproportionate force, or if firing a gun through a locked door is legal there. I will say that the officer who fired his handgun may not have used his best judgement, given that there were many others in the line of fire.

I do know, however, that Union soldiers were extending their hands to Confederate soldiers at The Angle on July 3, 1863 during Pickett's Charge and helping them to their side of the line.

Seems that this killing was, in my opinion, premature in response to the threat.

Maybe.

The top half of the door, locked or not, was a window that had been busted out.

Ashli was allegedly in the process of climbing through it.

 

[byco42]

Maybe.

The top half of the door, locked or not, was a window that had been busted out.

Ashli was allegedly in the process of climbing through it.

Yeah, I see that. What I don't see is any aggression on her part. She was helped into the opening and shot before she stepped through. Maybe she was trying to escape the mob on her side of the hallway. We'll never know. There is a video of her apparently attempting to subdue another man who is trying to breach the doorway. She even punched him in the face, seconds before she was shot.

What I viewed further illustrates the notion that the Capital Police may have used the example of the Union soldiers at The Angle here, at least in her case.

 

[Spartanmack]

I guess we can say the same for every black guy that gets shot by a cop.

Problem solved.

Or overdoses on fentanyl...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yeah, I see that. What I don't see is any aggression on her part. She was helped into the opening and shot before she stepped through. Maybe she was trying to escape the mob on her side of the hallway. We'll never know. There is a video of her apparently attempting to subdue another man who is trying to breach the doorway. She even punched him in the face, seconds before she was shot.

What I viewed further illustrates the notion that the Capital Police may have used the example of the Union soldiers at The Angle here, at least in her case.

Yeah, there?s nothing aggressive about being part of a mob that continues to bash public property and attempt to breach an opening that basing has created after police have made a dispersal order.

I?m going to say the same thing I said to libs on this board who were defending people who were whining about having been the ?victims? of police at the BLM riots -when a riot breaks out, GTFO. If you don?t, anything that happens is on you.

 

[byco42]

Yeah, there?s nothing aggressive about being part of a mob that continues to bash public property and attempt to breach an opening that basing has created after police have made a dispersal order.

I?m going to say the same thing I said to libs on this board who were defending people who were whining about having been the ?victims? of police at the BLM riots -when a riot breaks out, GTFO. If you don?t, anything that happens is on you.

I'm not "defending" anyone. I'll say that situations like these are never clear cut.

Each individual involved has their own reasoning and motives. Some may overlap. Some may be singular. I'm not of the opinion that Ashli Babbitt posed an imminent threat to the Police or to Congressional Representatives.

 

[Michchamp]

I think police use of force is excessive -and increasingly so these days - and infuriating. And mere destruction of property does not justify the use of deadly force, regardless of who is doing it.

Ashley Babbitt should not have been shot and killed.

It's also true that it is the absolute height of hypocrisy and a sign your brain is completely warped by politics to defend her after years of dismissing the deaths of people like George Floyd, Michael Brown, Eric Garner... Trayvon Martin, and almost countless others.

 

[byco42]

I think police use of force is excessive -and increasingly so these days - and infuriating. And mere destruction of property does not justify the use of deadly force, regardless of who is doing it.

Ashley Babbitt should not have been shot and killed.

It's also true that it is the absolute height of hypocrisy and a sign your brain is completely warped by politics to defend her after years of dismissing the deaths of people like George Floyd, Michael Brown, Eric Garner... Trayvon Martin, and almost countless others.

This one is an outlier, IMO. Whomever considers this killing as "justified" is deranged.

 

[Spartanmack]

This one is an outlier, IMO. Whomever considers this killing as "justified" is deranged.

the argument with this one isn't whether or not it was justified, it's whether or not he was killed by the police. In the Floyd case the original coroners report stated that he died from an overdose and it clearly stated there were no injuries to his trachea or neck from the officers treatment of him. Then the coroner watched the video and called his death a murder.

Of course, this is in no way a justification of what the cop did but if you point this out, the "cops are racist murderers" people light their hair on fire, jump up and down screaming and yelling and calling you racist for "taking the cops side" and justifying Floyd's death. Two things can be true at once - he was clearly mistreated and the cop should have been disciplined, possibly fired and criminally charged but he probably wasn't murdered.

The Eric Garner case is somewhat similar. He wasn't on drugs but was morbidly obese and died from an asthma induced hear attack. Virtually every news outlet has the words "illegal choke hold" in their headlines but expert testimony makes it clear no chokehold was used and that Garner was subdued with a legal move the cops are taught in the academy - the move is still legal today. It's certainly possible the police were negligent in not responding to Garner's pleas about not being able to breathe but it doesn't seem to be the case that he was murdered or even a victim of police brutality.

 

[Spartanmack]

I think police use of force is excessive -and increasingly so these days - and infuriating. And mere destruction of property does not justify the use of deadly force, regardless of who is doing it.

Ashley Babbitt should not have been shot and killed.

It's also true that it is the absolute height of hypocrisy and a sign your brain is completely warped by politics to defend her after years of dismissing the deaths of people like George Floyd, Michael Brown, Eric Garner... Trayvon Martin, and almost countless others.

see above regarding Floyd and Garner. Michael Brown wasn't murdered and neither was Trayvon Martin, who also wasn't killed by police. One big difference between Babbit and the Garner and Brown cases is Garner and Brown were given the opportunity to surrender, and in both cases when they resisted there was an attempt to subdue them with non-lethal force. No guns were even drawn on Garner. In the case of Brown, he physically assaulted the officer and attempted to take his gun. Babbit climbed through the broken window and was executed without warning.

 

[Michchamp]

the argument with this one isn't whether or not it was justified, it's whether or not he was killed by the police. In the Floyd case the original coroners report stated that he died from an overdose and it clearly stated there were no injuries to his trachea or neck from the officers treatment of him. Then the coroner watched the video and called his death a murder.

Of course, this is in no way a justification of what the cop did but if you point this out, the "cops are racist murderers" people light their hair on fire, jump up and down screaming and yelling and calling you racist for "taking the cops side" and justifying Floyd's death. Two things can be true at once - he was clearly mistreated and the cop should have been disciplined, possibly fired and criminally charged but he probably wasn't murdered.

The Eric Garner case is somewhat similar. He wasn't on drugs but was morbidly obese and died from an asthma induced hear attack. Virtually every news outlet has the words "illegal choke hold" in their headlines but expert testimony makes it clear no chokehold was used and that Garner was subdued with a legal move the cops are taught in the academy - the move is still legal today. It's certainly possible the police were negligent in not responding to Garner's pleas about not being able to breathe but it doesn't seem to be the case that he was murdered or even a victim of police brutality.

did you watch the George Floyd video? I did.

Also, the wikipedia article doesn't mention anything about an autopsy attributing his death to an OD. Only that drugs may have contributed, but the primary cause was neck compression. Where are you seeing that?

And Chauvin was fired and then convicted of murder... don't forget that part.

"it's certainly possible the police were negligent in not responding to Garner's pleas" ...

JESUS H. CHRIST... the cops choked him to death for selling a cigarette on the street.

Serious Question for you - are you this much of a dickhead in real life, or just get off on pretending to be one on the internet?

 

[Spartanmack]

did you watch the George Floyd video? I did.

Also, the wikipedia article doesn't mention anything about an autopsy attributing his death to an OD. Only that drugs may have contributed, but the primary cause was neck compression. Where are you seeing that?

And Chauvin was fired and then convicted of murder... don't forget that part.

"it's certainly possible the police were negligent in not responding to Garner's pleas" ...

JESUS H. CHRIST... the cops choked him to death for selling a cigarette on the street.

Serious Question for you - are you this much of a dickhead in real life, or just get off on pretending to be one on the internet?

Nice try, but I'm not defending Chauvin's actions or saying either Garner or Floyd deserved to die but you need to reframe my position because you can't dispute any of this. I'm just interested in the facts and the truth - something you're not very familiar with. I have to say it's pretty funny that you're intentionally ignoring evidence and perfectly ok with a medical examiner caving to political pressure in order to falsely convict a guy of murder because he's an asshole and you think I'm the dickhead.

Yes, i watched the George Floyd video and as I said before, I'm not defending what Chauvin did. And I read the autopsy report which specifically states that George Floyd did NOT have life threatening injuries. The coroner waited until after finishing his report to watch the video and when he did, he changed his conclusion as to the cause of death despite the presence of a lethal dose of fentanyl, methanphetamine, a heart condition and the lack of life threatening injuries. Did you read that report? No, you read Wikipedia. Again, that is NOT a defense of what Chauvin did. No matter how much of an asshole he might be, based on the evidence, he's not a murderer.

And no, the cops didn't choke Eric Garner to death. Expert testimony indicated that no choke hold was used on Eric Garner, despite what the Wikipedia recap says. The move used to subdue Garner is called a seatbelt hold. Cops are trained to use it in the academy and it continues to be taught and a proper and legal use of force to this day as it is not lethal. And the coroner, under cross examination admitted there were no fractures of his trachea or other injuries seen in virtually every strangulation/choking death. And based on that evidence, a grand jury voted not to indict the cop.

Serious question for you, are you this much of an idiot in real life that you automatically believe every headline you read so long as it comports with your narrative that all cops are racist and every death involving a minority is intentional, racist murder?

 

[Michchamp]

Nice try, but I'm not defending Chauvin's actions or saying either Garner or Floyd deserved to die but you need to reframe my position because you can't dispute any of this. I'm just interested in the facts and the truth - something you're not very familiar with. I have to say it's pretty funny that you're intentionally ignoring evidence and perfectly ok with a medical examiner caving to political pressure in order to falsely convict a guy of murder because he's an asshole and you think I'm the dickhead.

Yes, i watched the George Floyd video and as I said before, I'm not defending what Chauvin did. And I read the autopsy report which specifically states that George Floyd did NOT have life threatening injuries. The coroner waited until after finishing his report to watch the video and when he did, he changed his conclusion as to the cause of death despite the presence of a lethal dose of fentanyl, methanphetamine, a heart condition and the lack of life threatening injuries. Did you read that report? No, you read Wikipedia. Again, that is NOT a defense of what Chauvin did. No matter how much of an asshole he might be, based on the evidence, he's not a murderer.

And no, the cops didn't choke Eric Garner to death. Expert testimony indicated that no choke hold was used on Eric Garner, despite what the Wikipedia recap says. The move used to subdue Garner is called a seatbelt hold. Cops are trained to use it in the academy and it continues to be taught and a proper and legal use of force to this day as it is not lethal. And the coroner, under cross examination admitted there were no fractures of his trachea or other injuries seen in virtually every strangulation/choking death. And based on that evidence, a grand jury voted not to indict the cop.

Serious question for you, are you this much of an idiot in real life that you automatically believe every headline you read so long as it comports with your narrative that all cops are racist and every death involving a minority is intentional, racist murder?

wow. Chauvin should've had a genius like you as a defense lawyer... he might not have been, you know convicted of murder if you were there to explain all that to the judge and jury.

 

[Spartanmack]

wow. Chauvin should've had a genius like you as a defense lawyer... he might not have been, you know convicted of murder if you were there to explain all that to the judge and jury.

I have way too much integrity to be a lawyer. I mean look at what happens to people like Chauvin just because he's an idiot and an asshole...then idiots like you call it justice. Seems like he was adequately represented. What he needed was jurors that care about facts and the truth and not political activism or expedience.

By the way, is it true that before you became a lawyer you were fired from the M&Ms plant for throwing out all the Ws? For your benefit, that?s a joke about how dumb you are.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I'm not "defending" anyone. I'll say that situations like these are never clear cut.

Each individual involved has their own reasoning and motives. Some may overlap. Some may be singular. I'm not of the opinion that Ashli Babbitt posed an imminent threat to the Police or to Congressional Representatives.

Okay.

When I used the word ?defending? I was talking about posters on this board who we?re defending BLM rioters during the Summer of Love. I really wouldn?t describe you as defending Ashli Babbitt.

Your link in the post I quoted in this post refers to an NBC interview given by Capitol Police Officer Michael Byrd, and I had posted to an article about that interview in post #1864.

 

[Johnny68]

Babbitt was climbing through the broken window of the last secure point between the Trump mob and the Speakers Lobby. She got exactly what she deserved and if anyone deserves blame for her death, besides herself, it's the bloated orange dude.