Ending Marijuana prohibition

[Gulo Blue]

And per my earlier post, the taxes on legalized pot or other drugs create a significant arbitrage between legal market and black market prices giving the cartels plenty of room to operate profitably (and brutally) in legalized drugs...

I didn't really understand that point. If taxes are so high that legalizing wouldn't reduce the incentive to smuggle, then shouldn't there be sufficient incentive to smuggle things that are currently legal...to avoid those high taxes?

 

[Michchamp]

I didn't really understand that point. If taxes are so high that legalizing wouldn't reduce the incentive to smuggle, then shouldn't there be sufficient incentive to smuggle things that are currently legal...to avoid those high taxes?

just ignore him.

 

[Michchamp]

...
do you honestly believe that pot being legalized will stop the Mexican drug cartels from continuing business as usual, both in terms of dealing illegal drugs and murdering people??? ...

To follow your logic, I guess we better make avocados illegal then as well. LINK & LINK.

...if pot is legalized, they would just move on to the other illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine being most likely, but my bet would actually be meth due to its lower cost on the front end and increased use driving up the value. ...

they've already been in other drugs. In fact, I think they got big on cocaine first, which was relatively easy to profit from because of it's high cost/kilo. Weed sells for less and takes up more space.

Regardless, the cartels are incredibly powerful and wealthy now, because of drug prohibition. De-criminalization isn't going to make the cartels go away overnight, but it's going to hurt their profits and therefore undermine their power more effectively than anything we'd tried for the last few decades, none of which has worked, no matter how much money we throw at this self-created problem.

De-criminalization is a better long term strategy than criminalization, & having to militarize the police to enforce these laws... which is completely insane.

 

[Sbee]

ok, now this has to be the WORST argument in favor of legalizing pot.

do you honestly believe that pot being legalized will stop the Mexican drug cartels from continuing business as usual, both in terms of dealing illegal drugs and murdering people???

if pot is legalized, they would just move on to the other illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine being most likely, but my bet would actually be meth due to its lower cost on the front end and increased use driving up the value.

but let's take it a step further and say all illegal drugs were made legal, the cartels would still find other illegal activities to line their pockets with money and use as excuses to kill people...because that is what they do. granted their actions originated out of poverty, but it isn't like they are not flush with money now and decided they have made enough so they can stop and just live off their current wealth. they'd rather keep making more, just like any Wall Street type who made their wealth via insider trading...people like that just never stop doing their illegal activity until they are killed or arrested, but even then many continue doing illegal things from behind bars.

one of the main reasons for their existence is US demand for illegal drugs. legalizing marijuana would lessen the demand

 

[Sbee]

I didn't really understand that point. If taxes are so high that legalizing wouldn't reduce the incentive to smuggle, then shouldn't there be sufficient incentive to smuggle things that are currently legal...to avoid those high taxes?

lots of reasons why people would buy pot legally vs the black market

convenience, drug dealers are inconvenient, they only take cash, operate at odd hours, has to be face to face, etc

consistency of product, people buy from starbucks all the time because they know what they're going to be getting.

trust, you're less likely to get ripped off dealing with a legitimate business than some guy in his apartment

 

[Sbee]

Why does it not make sense to arrest someone for doing something that isn't legal? Are you sure you don't smoke? Because I'd like to say that sounds like the textbook definition of bias...

Also, presumably there will be a minimum age for consumption/possession so I'm sure at least some of those arrests would still be legitimate.

I'm pretty open and honest about a lot of things on this board, if I smoked pot i'd be up front about it. I might if it becomes legal, nothing against it.

of course enforcing the law entails busting people for possession, the point is that the law doesn't make sense. it's a relatively harmless drug compared to alcohol or tobacco even

 

[tinselwolverine]

lots of reasons why people would buy pot legally vs the black market

convenience, drug dealers are inconvenient, they only take cash, operate at odd hours, has to be face to face, etc

consistency of product, people buy from starbucks all the time because they know what they're going to be getting.

trust, you're less likely to get ripped off dealing with a legitimate business than some guy in his apartment

I don't know how much weed is being sold on the black market here in California or in other weed friendly states, where obtaining it legally is so relatively easy.

 

[Gulo Blue]

lots of reasons why people would buy pot legally vs the black market

convenience, drug dealers are inconvenient, they only take cash, operate at odd hours, has to be face to face, etc

consistency of product, people buy from starbucks all the time because they know what they're going to be getting.

trust, you're less likely to get ripped off dealing with a legitimate business than some guy in his apartment

That's not what I was saying. Mack said you get taxed three times along the supply chain, so even if weed was legalized, there would still be enough profit involved to justify the cartels in continuing to do business as usual. But if that's true, then why wouldn't that logic apply to everything else? I'm not asking why people would want to buy weed legally. I'm asking why there aren't black markets for everything else if taxes are so high that the legality isn't the issue.

...and maybe there are. It seems there's avocado smuggling.

 

[tinselwolverine]

There are black markets for other commodities subject to high taxes/regulation. Cigarettes are one thing. Medications are another. Legal gambling can be inconvenient; easy and convenient online gambling is illegal.

 

[Michchamp]

There are black markets for other commodities subject to high taxes/regulation. Cigarettes are one thing. Medications are another. Legal gambling can be inconvenient; easy and convenient online gambling is illegal.

well that can only mean one thing... lower taxes! Also: government BAD!

 

[TheVictors]

Lol ...weed is already legal.


Anyone in this thread live in CO or WA and have actual firsthand experience or are all these assertions about what will happen just that?

 

[Spartanmack]

So, I wonder if it needs to reach a certain temperature to activate. Maybe you could add it to the boil and brew it into beer and then we wouldn't have this issue of which was the more dangerous substance.

But what about the synergistic effect where the whole is greater than sum of the parts...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Lol ...weed is already legal.


Anyone in this thread live in CO or WA and have actual firsthand experience or are all these assertions about what will happen just that?

Well, there have been some reported consequences I've been hearing about, but so what?

There are consequences of alcohol being legal, cigarettes, gambling (how many freakin' poor people blow precious dough they don't have on the government's own lottery?), abundant red meat, deep fried food, white processed starches, ending the 55 MPH federal speed limit -the list goes on and on.

There are consequences for freedom, freedom ain't free. We either live in a free society, or we don't.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Well, there have been some reported consequences I've been hearing about, but so what?

There are consequences of alcohol being legal, cigarettes, gambling (how many freakin' poor people blow precious dough they don't have on the government's own lottery?), abundant red meat, deep fried food, white processed starches, ending the 55 MPH federal speed limit -the list goes on and on.

There are consequences for freedom, freedom ain't free. We either live in a free society, or we don't.

Oh, by the way - weed has been pretty much legal to acquire, take home and smoke in one's own house in California for some time, too.

 

[Gulo Blue]

But what about the synergistic effect where the whole is greater than sum of the parts...

Definitely. It would be like a sharknado.

 

[Gulo Blue]

What does that do for companies that require drug tests? Would it be legal for a company to require employees to not consume alcohol on their own time?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Lol ...weed is already legal.


Anyone in this thread live in CO or WA and have actual firsthand experience or are all these assertions about what will happen just that?

Hey, Vic, I would imagine medical marijuana was legal in Colorado before it became simply legal, right?

Did you "get legal (that's what they call it here, 'getting legal...'?"

 

[Spartanmack]

I didn't really understand that point. If taxes are so high that legalizing wouldn't reduce the incentive to smuggle, then shouldn't there be sufficient incentive to smuggle things that are currently legal...to avoid those high taxes?

there is - if you lived in NY you'd see illegal cigarette busts on the news all the time. Did you see the story about the big fat guy that died while police were arresting him? he was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes. That's a big reason for the T in ATF...

or you could take michturd's advice and just ignore me because Americans are so patriotic, they all happily pay their taxes, especially potheads, they're probably among the most responsible of all Americans.

 

[Michchamp]

there is - if you lived in NY you'd see illegal cigarette busts on the news all the time. Did you see the story about the big fat guy that died while police were arresting him? he was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.

we better make cigarettes illegal.

 

[tinselwolverine]

we better make cigarettes illegal.

Well...we've been making them more expensive, and restricting their usage more and more as time has gone by.

They're a lot less legal than they used to be.

In Calabasas, and other places, I think, people can't smoke outside anymore - not even in their own back yards.