Farmers get 12 billion in farm aid

[sggatecl]

they probably would. while I'm not a fan of subsidies or trade wars, I dislike the one-sided trade agreements we have even more. I actually think this is a calculated move, not unforeseen collateral damage. It's a gamble but if it pays off, we get another better trade deal and the subsidies can (most likely will have to) go away.

I will be among the first to concede that fact if it happens. It's certainly one hell of a gamble.

 

[Spartanmack]

I will be among the first to concede that fact if it happens. It's certainly one hell of a gamble.

Is there another way? They're clearly not going to just eliminate their subsidies and tariffs - we've gotten nowhere with whatever options we've pursued in the past.

 

[Spartanmack]

come on...the moon landing was fake

OK, Kennedy (JFK, to be clear) was shot and we landed on the moon - maybe. we maybe landed on the moon but Kennedy was definitely shot - he was shot, wasn't he?

 

[Michchamp]

The US Commerce Dept reported that the trade deficit JUMPED by the most it has in 3 years. link. Figure that one out...

Thing not werk like President Business Genius said.

 

[sggatecl]

Is there another way? They're clearly not going to just eliminate their subsidies and tariffs - we've gotten nowhere with whatever options we've pursued in the past.

Not my field and I don't even casually know enough to say otherwise. I'd be spouting some Alex Jones level bullshit if I tried to act like I knew the answer.

 

[Michchamp]

Instead of fighting this the way we have - bumping heads against China, a foreign country we have no control over... why not target the companies HQ'd here but making these things in China? We have control over them.

Like say, if you're HQ'd here but manufacture abroad, the goods are subject to an import duty equal to what you're saving through labor arbitrage.

And if you move abroad, we'll only allow you to import if your labor standards meet US law, otherwise you pay high duties and the funding goes to a WPA-type labor program here, and builds us new parks, bridges, roads, train stations, etc.

You can try to make consumer shit wherever you want, but you need a market for it, and we're the biggest market.

(fat chance of any of this happening)

 

[Gulo Blue]

(fat chance of any of this happening)

Yeah. There's a world of campaign finance reform between where we are and any of that being possible.

 

[Spartanmack]

Instead of fighting this the way we have - bumping heads against China, a foreign country we have no control over... why not target the companies HQ'd here but making these things in China? We have control over them.

Like say, if you're HQ'd here but manufacture abroad, the goods are subject to an import duty equal to what you're saving through labor arbitrage.

And if you move abroad, we'll only allow you to import if your labor standards meet US law, otherwise you pay high duties and the funding goes to a WPA-type labor program here, and builds us new parks, bridges, roads, train stations, etc.

You can try to make consumer shit wherever you want, but you need a market for it, and we're the biggest market.

(fat chance of any of this happening)

there's a fat chance of it happening because while politicians aren't particularly part, they're hopefully smart enough not to do something this stupid. your brilliant idea won't work because we'll still get undercut by Chinese companies. The only thing you'll succeed in doing is creating disadvantages for US based companies that manufacture abroad.

 

[Gulo Blue]

there's a fat chance of it happening because while politicians aren't particularly part, they're hopefully smart enough not to do something this stupid. your brilliant idea won't work because we'll still get undercut by Chinese companies. The only thing you'll succeed in doing is creating disadvantages for US based companies that manufacture abroad.

Trade wars are easy to win.

 

[Michchamp]

there's a fat chance of it happening because while politicians aren't particularly part, they're hopefully smart enough not to do something this stupid. your brilliant idea won't work because we'll still get undercut by Chinese companies. The only thing you'll succeed in doing is creating disadvantages for US based companies that manufacture abroad.

Oh no. foreign goods would have tariffs, or at least be held to the same labor and environmental standards as US companies.

 

[Michchamp]

and even if US companies lost their advantage b/c foreign entities could undercut them on price by using slave labor, it's not like price is the only input in a consumer's decision.

everyone knows that.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Oh no. foreign goods would have tariffs, or at least be held to the same labor and environmental standards as US companies.

Easy peasy.

 

[Michchamp]

Easy peasy.

I know you're kidding but I understand how hard it is to verify labor standards in places like Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, etc.

at a prior job I used to sit next to a director in charge of auditing 3rd party suppliers in our supply chain.

even when you go in their, they do things to fudge the inspection, lie about where things are really made, etc. for example, they may tell you the shoes are sown together in SweatShop A, which you visit and it actually looks presentable. But they're really made in Sweatshop B, which looks like a dungeon.

It's impossible to root all this out, but you don't have to. just throw up enough impediments to make it more of a hassle to cheat. a lot of people want to do the right thing and will take a stand for it. Not everyone wants to engage in a race to the bottom.

and of course there's a cost to them to cheat... if you have to run two separate factories in order to game the system and pass inspections, that eats into your profits as well... actually enforcing laws and conducting inspections had an effect.

It seems though that due to regulatory capture, our elected officials are all too happy to grease the skids in the race to the bottom.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's very difficult, and adding trade war elements would make it even more difficult. I don't disagree that there's responsibility on our end. But I don't have a clue how to fix it either. Consumers pressuring companies to do what they can is good, but beyond that, it's tough to envision anything that would work and a path to get there.

 

[Spartanmack]

Trade wars are easy to win.

they're not easy to win but I would imagine they're particularly hard to win if you only target US companies producing overseas. That's just plain stupid.

As for requiring foreign producers to meet our labor and environmental standards, I think that's pretty dumb too, particularly if you're talking about requiring things like minimum or living wage standards. These countries need to industrialize and in order for that to happen, workers need to gain skills. If you walk in and tell them they need to pay workers X amount, you're going to displace workers and deny them opportunities - min wage rules are just as stupid if not moreso in the developing world than they are in developed countries. The last thing low skill workers in the underdeveloped world need is some idiot foreigner who doesn't understand their culture or economics in general coming in and telling their employers how to run their businesses. That's not to say there should be no standards at all - child & slave labor situations, dangerous conditions, etc are the obvious areas of concern.