Game 130 Tigers vs. indians August 27, 2019

[tigermud]

I still want him to get 3000 hits.

Yes that would be ok

 

[lonesometiger]

Speaking of hits 3 come on better hitters are needed.

 

[turok]

90th loss* of the season, 51 games under .500, -255 Rdiff*, 32.3 games remaining before this horribad season mercifully comes to an ignominious end.

*worst in MLB

With 15 Ks tonight, the Kittens have 1,298 on the season, and are likely to break the record of 1,594 set by the white sux last season.

 

[kalinecountry]

I still want him to get 3000 hits.

I used to think 3500 hits, 600 plus home runs, and nearly 700 doubles for Miggy.
Now he will be fortunate to get 3000 hits, 500 home runs, and 600 doubles.

 

[kalinecountry]

https://www.mlb.com/tigers/news/miguel-cabrera-exits-tigers-lose-to-indians
Cabrera leaves in sixth (biceps) as Tigers fall.
Tigers official site

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2019/8...ore-spencer-turnbull-nick-ramirez-adam-plutko
Cleveland 10 - Tigers 1: Another home game, another loss.
If things keep going this way, Comerica Park will be renamed ?Progressive Field 2.?
BYBTB

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...2-cabrera-leaves-biceps-tightness/2129471001/
Tigers' losing streak to Indians hits 12, Cabrera OK after biceps scare.
Detnews

The Tigers have lost 12 straight games to the Indians this season. That?s one off the 13 straight losses they absorbed over the 1996 and 1997 seasons ? which is the longest streak in this series.
Since Sept. 1, 2017, the Tigers are 7-33 against the Cleveland baseball team.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...it-tigers-score-cleveland-indians/2136662001/
Detroit Tigers walloped by Cleveland Indians, 10-1, for 90th loss.
Freep

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2019/08/tigers-open-homestand-with-10-1-loss-to-indians.html
Tigers open homestand with 10-1 loss to Indians.
Mlive

 

[kalinecountry]

https://totallytigers.wordpress.com/2019/08/27/the-trade-track-record/
THE TRADE TRACK RECORD.
Totally Tigers

Let?s face it, we?re keeping track. Even if they are no longer wearing the Old English D, we?re keeping track. Some of us because of loyalty and fan favorites. Some of us out of curiosity. And some, because we want to gauge the skills of those in the Front Office. After all, if the team is rebuilding, they have to accurately judge the talent before they acquire it.

We generally point to a couple of high-profile players as our proof. But what about the overall number of trades made? How did the Tigers do overall in trading away their top talent?

In other words, how did these players do after they left the Tigers? Did we get an equal return on the talent that left?

Sure, there are a number of factors to consider. Players end up with other teams that offer them better chances of hitting with runners on base. Other teams have established and advanced analytics and hi-tech tools that make training more effective. Ballparks can also be a factor, as can better coaches. And let?s face it, you can be more productive by simply moving to a team not mired in extreme losing and low energy.

Let?s look at those who have been traded since Dave Dombrowski?s last days. We?ll focus on the players with higher profiles and eliminate those who were with the team for a year or less. We?ll also ignore the multiple players who were simply released ? Joe Nathan, Francisco Rodriguez, Bruce Rondon and others ? due to age or personal factors.

And in this exercise, we?re not going to necessarily emphasize the returns the Tigers received for each player traded. In many cases, the prospects have not yet made their mark or the jury is still out. Let?s focus on what each former Tiger brought to the table for their new team. What was received in return will be considered, as will salary.

Great move? Bad move? Or sideways move? It?s all here below.

(Any stats used are current through Monday, August 26th.)

 

[byco42]

Does Chris Ilitch attend these games or is he more entertained washing dishes at a local Little Caesars?

 

[tomdalton22]

https://totallytigers.wordpress.com/2019/08/27/the-trade-track-record/
THE TRADE TRACK RECORD.
Totally Tigers

Let?s face it, we?re keeping track. Even if they are no longer wearing the Old English D, we?re keeping track. Some of us because of loyalty and fan favorites. Some of us out of curiosity. And some, because we want to gauge the skills of those in the Front Office. After all, if the team is rebuilding, they have to accurately judge the talent before they acquire it.

We generally point to a couple of high-profile players as our proof. But what about the overall number of trades made? How did the Tigers do overall in trading away their top talent?

In other words, how did these players do after they left the Tigers? Did we get an equal return on the talent that left?

Sure, there are a number of factors to consider. Players end up with other teams that offer them better chances of hitting with runners on base. Other teams have established and advanced analytics and hi-tech tools that make training more effective. Ballparks can also be a factor, as can better coaches. And let?s face it, you can be more productive by simply moving to a team not mired in extreme losing and low energy.

Let?s look at those who have been traded since Dave Dombrowski?s last days. We?ll focus on the players with higher profiles and eliminate those who were with the team for a year or less. We?ll also ignore the multiple players who were simply released ? Joe Nathan, Francisco Rodriguez, Bruce Rondon and others ? due to age or personal factors.

And in this exercise, we?re not going to necessarily emphasize the returns the Tigers received for each player traded. In many cases, the prospects have not yet made their mark or the jury is still out. Let?s focus on what each former Tiger brought to the table for their new team. What was received in return will be considered, as will salary.

Great move? Bad move? Or sideways move? It?s all here below.

(Any stats used are current through Monday, August 26th.)

Holly is getting cranky

Disasters for Detroit

Rick Porcello? He is average. Had one good year and is being paid $18M per season

Nick? Had a hot month. Still can't play defense.

I wouldn't say the JD trade was a disaster. What hey got in return was because he was a rental. She shouldn't look at what he has done with Boston since he since he signed there the year after he was traded.

I would say JV is the only disaster because how well he has done and he was drafted as a Tiger.

 

[tomdalton22]

I used to think 3500 hits, 600 plus home runs, and nearly 700 doubles for Miggy.
Now he will be fortunate to get 3000 hits, 500 home runs, and 600 doubles.

He still has 4 years left.

If he averages 130 hits, 15 HRs & 25 doubles he will have 3300+ hits, 535 HRs & 675 2b

I think that scenario is very likely.

For 3500/600/700

he has to average

176/32/31


No way he gets the hits or HRs. 700 doubles is within reach.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He still has 4 years left.

If he averages 130 hits, 15 HRs & 25 doubles he will have 3300+ hits, 535 HRs & 675 2b

I think that scenario is very likely.

For 3500/600/700

he has to average

176/32/31


No way he gets the hits or HRs. 700 doubles is within reach.

15 might have seen easy some time ago but he only has 9 right now. He's still hitting for average. Doubles maybe doable but he needs to stay healthy.

 

[lonesometiger]

He gets healthy he could put up some big numbers again. And really the greed factor has to come in at some point should he, want more money,ie ["2024-25 options guaranteed with top 10 finish in previous year’s MVP vote", cot's baseball contract]!!
He really needs to rethink his options. And should surgery be an answer, he needs to get it sooner than later.

 

[tomdalton22]

He gets healthy he could put up some big numbers again. And really the greed factor has to come in at some point should he, want more money,ie ["2024-25 options guaranteed with top 10 finish in previous year?s MVP vote", cot's baseball contract]!!
He really needs to rethink his options. And should surgery be an answer, he needs to get it sooner than later.

I think the chance he finishes in the top 10 in MVP voting after the 2023 season...well, it would be a miracle. His body is breaking down because of normal wear and tear and his size/weight. As far as the greed factor, he is going to make $132M over the next 4 seasons. Unless he has a 3rd family out there, I think he is set for money.

I honestly think he doesn't care anymore. The team sucks and his body is breaking down. My guess, if it weren't for the guaranteed money, I think he would quit before his contract is up.

 

[lonesometiger]

I think the chance he finishes in the top 10 in MVP voting after the 2023 season...well, it would be a miracle. His body is breaking down because of normal wear and tear and his size/weight. As far as the greed factor, he is going to make $132M over the next 4 seasons. Unless he has a 3rd family out there, I think he is set for money.

I honestly think he doesn't care anymore. The team sucks and his body is breaking down. My guess, if it weren't for the guaranteed money, I think he would quit before his contract is up.

Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove in 1999 with only 28 games started at first base and only FINISHED 25 of them there. In baseball anything is possible. Just how many votes does it take to finish in the top 10? Verlander got 26 votes for 10th place in 2018,Cruz got 44 2017,Lindor got 56 in 2016 tied for 9th with Cabrera! point being Detroit could really get mess over here, as it does not take very many points to get to 10th place. Btw Cabrera got top billing over Lindor....

 

[Rebbiv]

2019 DET (ex-DET) Exit Velocity (Last 5 years) = MLB Average = 87.5


J.D. Martinez 91.7 (91.7)
J. Jones 91.3 (89.0)
A. Avila 90.9 (90.6)
T. Demeritte 90.9 (90.9)
M. Cabrera 90.4 (92.5)
B. Dixon 89.9 (89.7)
J. McCann 89.9 (87.8)
N. Goodrum 89.3 (88.4)
N. Castellanos 88.7 (89.0)
M. Mahtook 88.6 (88.6)
J. Mercer 87.8 (86.5)

J. Candelario 87.4 (87.2)
J. Hicks 87.4 (86.9)
R. Rodriquez 86.8 (85.3)
D. Lugo 86.7 (86.5)
C. Stewart 86.6 (86.7)
J. Upton 86.5 (89.9)
G. Beckham 86.5 (86.1)
H. Castro 86.4 (86.4)
W. Castro 86.4 (86.4)
J. Harrison 85.3 (84.9)
V. Reyes 85.1 (84.5)
G. Greiner 84.7 (86.0)
L. Martin 84.7 (85.4)
J. Iglesias 84.4 (83.2)
I. Kinsler 83.6 (85.8)
J. Rogers 81.8 (81.8)

Traditionally, your 20+ HR hitters have an average exit velocity of 90 and above. They also generally have a high "hard hit" ratio. But the other stat to combine is Barrel %. The number of balls barreled up. They didn't undercut or overcut the ball.


2019 DET (ex-DET) Barrel % (Last 5 years) = MLB Average = 6.3


A. Avila 19.5 (13.3)
W. Castro 14.3 (14.3)
J.D. Martinez 12.4 (15.9)
B. Dixon 12.0 (11.3)
J. Upton 10.7 (12.5)
J. Jones 10.7 (8.0)
G. Beckham 10.1 (5.0)
N. Castellanos 9.5 (10.6)
J. McCann 9.0 (6.8)
J. Rogers 8.6 (8.6)
R. Rodriguez 8.4 (5.8)
M. Mahtook 8.3 (6.6)
C. Stewart 7.5 (7.3)
J. Mercer 6.6 (3.3)

N. Goodrum 6.3 (7.1)
J. Candelario 6.3 (5.8)
L. Martin 6.2 (5.9)
M. Cabrera 6.1 (10.8)
J. Hicks 6.0 (6.4)
T. Demeritte 5.4 (5.4)

J. Harrison 4.5 (2.6)
G. Greiner 4.1 (5.5)
H. Castro 4.1 (3.9)
D. Lugo 3.1 (2.5)
V. Reyes 2.6 (2.8)
J. Iglesias 2.5 (1.1)
I. Kinsler 1.5 (3.5)


Cabrera is still above average in exit velocity and hard hit% (34.5% MLB Avg), even if those are below his norms. Where he has regressed the most is Barrel %.


David Ortiz last 2 years of his career
2015 = 13.1% Barrel 92.9 Exit Vel 48.9% Hard Hit
2016 = 15.3% Barrel 92.9 Exit Vel 46.9% Hard Hit


Miguel Cabrera last 3 years
2017 = 10.5% Barrel 91.3 Exit Vel 47.9% Hard Hit
2018 = 4.6% Barrel 94.4 Exit Vel 54.6% Hard Hit
2019 = 6.1% Barrel 90.4 Exit Vel 44.5% Hard Hit