Gibbons kicked off team

[Monster]

Paragraphs, bro. Please, for the love of eyesight...paragraphs.

 

[Gulo Blue]

So Michigan is saying they won't address what happened with this case specifically.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Michigan...ess-details-of-player-s-rape-allegations.html

All they're saying is they dealt with it in 2009 by the 2009 policy and dealt with it in 2013 with the 2013 policy and the current policy allows them to revisit cases if new information comes to light.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think we might have as much of the story as we're going to get. It looks bad because of the horrible timing, but there's no evidence, and it doesn't make sense, that actions were taken to preserve his football eligibility. People that hate Michigan are going to think otherwise. But what I think is really happening is there's been a pretty major shift in what it takes to be viewed as guilty in the eyes of the University. It came from the federal government, so the timing had nothing to do with Michigan. And we don't know what new information might be available now that wasn't in 2009. It's not a legal proceeding, maybe hearsay is permissible. We've read on this board that Gibbons has talked about it.

dokuley is right that there isn't enough in the 2009 police deports to determine guilt. But the standard here is far lower, there may be information not included in the police reports, and it's possible that the new set of rules don't protect the standing of the accused to the degree we're accustomed to since we tend to make comparisons to our legal system. While I think they got it right with Gibbons, the "preponderance of evidence" standard does allow for innocent people to be deemed guilty. Not saying that's what happened here, just that it's a dramatic change over the 2009 policy, and now that I'm thinking about it big picture, it wouldn't shock me at all if at some point, they have to alter the policy again.

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://michigandaily.com/sports/ci...versity-declines-release-details-gibbons-case

“It’s a combination of being sensitive to FERPA, the law, as well as the University policies that are more restrictive than FERPA,” Fitzgerald said.
Fitzgerald said administrators deliberated Wednesday on what course of action to pursue, taking into account “the letter of the law, the spirit of the law and long-standing University policies.”
“After consulting the law, consulting the attorneys in the Office of General Counsel, giving careful consideration to our long-standing policy of not discussing student disciplinary matters publicly, this is the only information we are releasing,” Fitzgerald said. “We’re not releasing any additional details.”

Apparently, FERPA specifically says it doesn't cover disciplinary proceedings except for some reason if it's for sexual harassment, so this is probably lawyer speak for "We not telling because we don't want to, but we want you to think FERPA ties our hands."

Someone will FOIA this at some point. Maybe we haven't heard the end of it.

It might be my pro-Michigan bias; what I don't want to see is that there was any coverup or dragging out of this because of his being on the football team. But it could be that he would have gotten away with it if it were not for his being on the football team and the extra scrutiny that goes with that.


And of course, Doug Smith is there...1st/only commenter on the article right now.

 

[Michchamp]

I was thinking at least he didn't graduate, but as a 5th year senior, Mgoblue states he had a BGS. So I guess the next best thing is that he didn't at least get whatever graduate degree he was there for, and our only real face-saving comment can be "better late than never."

I wonder if he'll get signed to some NFL team?

 

[Michchamp]

I'm very glad he and Lewan are history.

that's really it for the negatives of the RR Era at Michigan. no more baggage. Now we have a new OC, another year for Gardner (probably) and we can look forward to that.

 

[b311j]

"

I wonder if he'll get signed to some NFL team?

Do you really think he would have even if this stuff never happened?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm very glad he and Lewan are history.

that's really it for the negatives of the RR Era at Michigan. no more baggage. Now we have a new OC, another year for Gardner (probably) and we can look forward to that.

Yeah. Not a fan of Lewan. Even if we're just talking about on the field stuff.

 

[thewolverines24]

Yeah. Not a fan of Lewan. Even if we're just talking about on the field stuff.

Totally agree. No matter how good he was, he never matured and grew out of his dumbass freshman mistakes. He continued to get called for personal fouls that really hurt the team and killed drives.

 

[Michchamp]

Bill Martin claims he had no knowledge of the Gibbons incident while he was AD. article.

I don't know if that's a reasonable claim to make, depending on how the University's internal incidents are managed... then again, maybe he was on his yacht (listening to yacht rock) the whole time. Gibbons was booted from the dorm; seems unlikely whatever University department investigating the incident would not have contacted the athletic department at some point. And presumably this would've gone up the chain to BM, but maybe some lower lever operative kept it under raps.

the Daily reached out to RichRod in Tucson, but he was "unavailable for comment."

 

[Michlady]

2009 this was investigated. And univ policies followed that were in place

Something brought it back in 2011 when policy and procedure changed
And another new process in 2013

I want to know if other cases from 2009 and 2010 were also reviewed under new guidelines

I am not defending him Just wondering if other cases were reviewed

Also these type of cases are always difficult from all angles

 

[RedeemerKid]

Bill Martin claims he had no knowledge of the Gibbons incident while he was AD. article.

I don't know if that's a reasonable claim to make, depending on how the University's internal incidents are managed... then again, maybe he was on his yacht (listening to yacht rock) the whole time. Gibbons was booted from the dorm; seems unlikely whatever University department investigating the incident would not have contacted the athletic department at some point. And presumably this would've gone up the chain to BM, but maybe some lower lever operative kept it under raps.

the Daily reached out to RichRod in Tucson, but he was "unavailable for comment."

This is either one of two things.

First potential scenario: He lying and did know about it and simply doesn?t want to deal with the obvious and incriminating (using that word loosely) series of questions that would be asked of the presiding AD at the time.

Second potential scenario: He?s telling the truth and something was seriously broken in the hierarchy of the University and Athletic department communication at the time. Perhaps he was asleep at the wheel. Perhaps it was hidden from him intentionally.

I think it's the former. Pants on fire. It was reported by the Ann Arbor News on 11/22/2009 that a UM football player had been arrested for sexual assault. How does the AD not hear about that? No one that he talks to read the Ann Arbor News and mentioned it to him? Reports of a student athlete being arrested tend to go viral within the athletic departments of our nations academic institutions. I can?t believe for a moment that he didn't hear about this.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-student-arrested-after-reported-sexual-assault/

 

[Michchamp]

Well, there is no love lost for Bill Martin on this board, and I could (and I think most posters here) could see him simply lying his way out of this as well. he's experienced enough in these matters to understand he's not under oath, and why the hell does a guy like him owe the public any duty of candor? (That's a rhetorical question... I'm not condoning lying to the public.)

the way this was handled may have contributed to his departure, and if so, was left unsaid at the time.

 

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/hoke-speaks-out-football-team-disciplinary-matters

Reading between the lines, when Hoke says

Our usual approach is to not issue discipline related to a student's standing on the team before the University's process runs its course and the outcome has been determined. We will always respect the rights and confidentiality of the process and the parties involved. One way we do that is by not discussing the details of student disciplinary matters.

that probably means he knew about the investigation at the time of the Iowa game, but played him anyway. Maybe because Gibbons hadn't met with the university officials yet (I'm not still entirely clear on the timeline, was the Dec 4 meeting the hearing or was Gibbons not present at his hearing?). But then it isn't clear why he didn't play vs. OSU. There's nothing in the timeline that happened better Gibbons playing vs Iowa and not playing vs OSU.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Well, there is no love lost for Bill Martin on this board, and I could (and I think most posters here) could see him simply lying his way out of this as well. he's experienced enough in these matters to understand he's not under oath, and why the hell does a guy like him owe the public any duty of candor? (That's a rhetorical question... I'm not condoning lying to the public.)

the way this was handled may have contributed to his departure, and if so, was left unsaid at the time.

I wouldn't say that. The RR hiring was a debacle and I wish we didn't have luxury suites, but compared to how Brandon turns the screws on the fan base, Martin took it easy on us. He was even quoted, saying something like 'just because you can raise ticket prices and sell them all doesn't mean you should.' or something like that.

Regarding his talking to the public, he was eager to be in contact whether he owed the public something or not. I've told my 1 anecdote before, I sent an email complaining about the company he hired for the renovation based on their other projects. He called within the hour to discuss it. No way you can get to Brandon like that without being a big dollar donor.

 

[Michchamp]

was definitely a rough season for Brady Hoke. with the poor performance of some members of his staff (some were obvious, others we don't know enough about), and the personnel issues going on because of the Gibbons/Lewan thing, he had a lot on his plate, in addition to dealing with a 7-6 record.

if we improve in 2014 and beyond, I think Brady Hoke deserves a lot of credit for keeping things from completely exploding this year.

 

[Michchamp]

I wouldn't say that. The RR hiring was a debacle and I wish we didn't have luxury suites, but compared to how Brandon turns the screws on the fan base, Martin took it easy on us. He was even quoted, saying something like 'just because you can raise ticket prices and sell them all doesn't mean you should.' or something like that.

eh... who knows?

Martin did two things right: Hired John Beilein & got the ball rolling on the Stadium renovations. But aren't we also stuck with the higher ticket prices as part of all the new construction we saw planned during his tenure?

And Martin did the coaching search very, very wrong. And that's a big wrong. IF there's one thing you should do right as the Michigan AD, it's hire a good football coach. Everything else falls into place behind that. He also was responsible for some of the abysmal scheduling over the years... and apparently he's been a pretty big jerk to everyone but you (remembering your story about how he personally replied to your email.)

 

[Gulo Blue]

eh... who knows?

Martin did two things right: Hired John Beilein & got the ball rolling on the Stadium renovations. But aren't we also stuck with the higher ticket prices as part of all the new construction we saw planned during his tenure?

And Martin did the coaching search very, very wrong. And that's a big wrong. IF there's one thing you should do right as the Michigan AD, it's hire a good football coach. Everything else falls into place behind that. He also was responsible for some of the abysmal scheduling over the years... and apparently he's been a pretty big jerk to everyone but you (remembering your story about how he personally replied to your email.)

Good catch on the email reply story, I did go right back to that. The ticket price thing depends on whether or not he was lying. Back when the suites were being argued over, it seems like the argument was that renovations had to happen and they could either raise ticket prices by $30 or add the suites and raise ticket prices by $5-10. If he knew that wasn't true and ticket prices would be going up dramatically either way, that would be ugly.

The abysmal scheduling might have stemmed from his overestimation of ND, but I specifically remember him thinking he had a good get that people would be happy with for the rededication. Turns out he was talking about Connecticut, and we had to go back there this year because of it. So yeah, that's a solid strike against him.

 

[Michchamp]

...and his initials are "BM"

fitting given his contributions to the football program.

 

[hailhail]

Aside from the whole Rich Rod thing, give me Bill over DB any day. And most of the Rich Rod circus existed only because of the media, message boards, and bloggers. He didn't handle that (see: eliminate it) so well but in some sense he doesn't have to -- just needed to diffuse the rumors.