Gotta love our democracy - smh

[Monster]

After bitching for years now about the mexican border, wanting to build electric fences, and wanting to fix immigration laws - oh, and the new flood of children from Central America, John Bonehead is now saying that the house will not vote on an immigration bill this year.

Say whatever you will about about both sides of the immigration debate, but come on! There's a half year left in this year and you're saying already that there can be no vote, which I assume it also means there will be no discussions about what has to be done?

Are you fucking kidding me? Mother fuckers need to start earning their pay! That goes for both parties!

I know this is old news but I've been trying to stay out of the whole politics thing for a few days. Too much going on that shouldn't be and is only serving to piss me off. :ugh:

 

[Michchamp]

Love it or leave it, ya ingrate.

 

[biggunsbob]

It really is amazing how much John Boehner and his party have obstructed Obama.. You would think they would have no shot at being reelected after using the record most filibuster to stop America from coming back after the 8 years of Bush policy's ....Five straight months of job growths and republicans still don't want to work with Obama...
It really makes no sense how much they hate this president..

 

[tsmith7559]

240 bills passing the house, sitting Harrys desk..no action taken

 

[Monster]

240 bills passing the house, sitting Harrys desk..no action taken

And? Did you read what I wrote? Both parties. Easy to write a Partisan bill, push it through, and blame the other side. Our paid politicians do nothing together because it harms their party for the next election. You are being screwed by these fuckers in the name of power and money. Does that not piss you off?

 

[Monster]

Love it or leave it, ya ingrate.

You can't tell me the system is working. Democracy is good, but something must change because money and love of being in power is preventing things from getting done.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You need to get the military involved. Illegal immigration is really bad now and it's going to get worst. It hits closer to home since I moved to Arizona last year..and it pisses me off too then nothing is being done..

 

[Michchamp]

You need to get the military involved. Illegal immigration is really bad now and it's going to get worst. It hits closer to home since I moved to Arizona last year..and it pisses me off too then nothing is being done..

yes, get the military involved... great idea, genius.

This is totally the sort of issue they are prepared for, and they did such a great job in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and with the VA.

 

[Monster]

You need to get the military involved. Illegal immigration is really bad now and it's going to get worst. It hits closer to home since I moved to Arizona last year..and it pisses me off too then nothing is being done..

I agree. Still think a huge wall needs to be built. Need it in combo with dealing with current undocumented. No way we can allow millions of people to live here illegally. Give them a chance to stay once the border is closed, but make sure we're running background checks. Something has to be done. I just wish they'd talk instead of declaring the issue dead for the year.

 

[Monster]

yes, get the military involved... great idea, genius.

This is totally the sort of issue they are prepared for, and they did such a great job in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and with the VA.

If not the military, who? The current border control thugs? Police?

 

[Mitchrapp]

yes, get the military involved... great idea, genius.

This is totally the sort of issue they are prepared for, and they did such a great job in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and with the VA.

I didn't say go bombs ablazing ..but the border patrol can only do so much which is pretty much nothing..

 

[biggunsbob]

240 bills passing the house, sitting Harrys desk..no action taken

What >>>> GOP passed drivel with GOP agenda's. I would let them sit too.. Last I check the GOP lost the white house because Bush and his policies failed.. They block or try to block anything Obama tries... I guess you missed the record filibuster that the phony GOP house has done with Obama in office.. Instead of trying to bring us together all republicans do is try and divide and conquer through redistricting... You guys on the right would be so pissed off if this was happing under McCain or Romney. Check that under McCain we would all be dead anyway.. There is not a war he does not want to fight..

 

[tinselwolverine]

If not the military, who? The current border control thugs? Police?

I would name Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio"Immigration' Czar." and give him unencumbered authority until the situation is resolved.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I would name Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio"Immigration' Czar." and give him unencumbered authority until the situation is resolved.

Agree. That's one bad ass Sheriff.

 

[Spartanmack]

yes, get the military involved... great idea, genius.

This is totally the sort of issue they are prepared for, and they did such a great job in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and with the VA.

You're blaming the military for the VA shitshow? The VA is not a branch of the US military. It's not run by the military and it's not accountable to the military. It is a government run military benefit system with cabinet level status - it is accountable to the President. That means the president has more authority over the VA than the military does - a lot more, like "all" vs. "none". By the way, nice Gish Gallop.

 

[Michchamp]

You're blaming the military for the VA shitshow? The VA is not a branch of the US military. It's not run by the military and it's not accountable to the military. It is a government run military benefit system with cabinet level status - it is accountable to the President. That means the president has more authority over the VA than the military does - a lot more, like "all" vs. "none". By the way, nice Gish Gallop.

my bad. the guy who just resigned over the scandal is Eric Shinseki, a former general, but currently a civilian, so maybe it's not technically correct to blame the military for the VA issues. Still... iraq and afghanistan were my other two points. 2 out of 3 ain't bad!

 

[Michchamp]

After bitching for years now about the mexican border, wanting to build electric fences, and wanting to fix immigration laws - oh, and the new flood of children from Central America, John Bonehead is now saying that the house will not vote on an immigration bill this year.

Say whatever you will about about both sides of the immigration debate, but come on! There's a half year left in this year and you're saying already that there can be no vote, which I assume it also means there will be no discussions about what has to be done?

Are you fucking kidding me? Mother fuckers need to start earning their pay! That goes for both parties!

I know this is old news but I've been trying to stay out of the whole politics thing for a few days. Too much going on that shouldn't be and is only serving to piss me off. :ugh:

it gets worse.

Immigration hasn't been in the press lately. I remember reading about how Obama really beefed up border security, and deported record numbers of illegal aliens (like... WAY MORE than W. Bush did). This has been the Obama administration's policy from almost day one.

this article has some of the stats. yes it's salon.com but you can find these elsewhere:

The president ramped up deportations, sending 2 million unauthorized immigrants to their home countries in the last five years. He expanded the Department of Homeland Security?s ?Secure Communities? program, partnering with local and state law-enforcement agencies to arrest and detain unauthorized immigrants. He doubled the number of agents at the border. Under his watch, spending on immigration enforcement has risen to $18 billion per year ? more than the total sum of all other federal law-enforcement efforts combined. In part because of these investments, as well as the recession in the U.S. and improving economic conditions in Mexico, net migration from our southern neighbor has fallen to zero.
​

that last link is interesting... the Pew Report shows that net migration from Mexico (both legal and illegal) has fallen to zero, and indeed may be negative, with more people leaving the U.S. to move to Mexico (I know... derrrr... 'cause Barry and the libs are Derrr...)

The article also surmises that one of the reasons the Obama administration took this stance (which was of course unpopular with their Hispanic supporters) is that the GOP would meet them halfway and agree to comprehensive immigration reform once they showed they would take a hard line on abuse. Oops. You trusted Boehner and co. and compromised. dumb move.

I know when things such as the increased spending on border defense & high rates of deportations under Obama are pointed out to Conservatives, they've pretty much been met with silence. The actual elected officials know that it's just too great of a hot button issue for rousing their stupid, racist voting base to let go. And the yokels that vote Republican have had the premise that "illegals" "took yer jobs" for so long that they can't fathom the fact that it may no longer be true.

Derrrrr.

 

[Spartanmack]

Or, maybe because you read Mother Jones you're only getting half (or less) of the story because they're only giving you half (or less) of the data...

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...er-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

When you count returns and removals and not just removals, Obama deported fewer illegals in his biggest year than GWB did in his lowest year (data on 2013 not included).

Derrrrr.

 

[Michchamp]

Or, maybe because you read Mother Jones you're only getting half (or less) of the story because they're only giving you half (or less) of the data...

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...er-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

When you count returns and removals and not just removals, Obama deported fewer illegals in his biggest year than GWB did in his lowest year.

Derrrrr.

what? It's not just Mother Jones, BTW... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...tinue-under-obama-despite-latino-disapproval/

WHY would you count removals as the same thing? that's stupid. deportation is a formal process, just sending the same guys over and over the border again is completely different.

That article you posted undermines it's own stats:

Bush oversaw a lot more returns, but, experts note, it?s hard to say how many more individual immigrants he actually deported. Many people tried and failed to make multiple border crossings. Each one would count in the statistics separately. This is true of all immigration data, but experts say it?s much more true of returns, just because the record-keeping is so informal. Even attempting to compare Bush?s numbers to Obama?s is ?a fool?s mission,? says Ruthie Epstein of the ACLU. Even though it?s likely more people were escorted back over the border under the last president than this one, we?ll never know how many
​

My post wasn't misleading. Hilariously even a Republican group made the same claim in an ad:

A group known as American Principles in Action is running an ad targeting Hispanic voters in Nevada, trying to weaken their support for President Barack Obama.
​

"Don?t be fooled by President Obama?s words," the narrator says. "He?s not committed to immigrants. He only wants our vote. With the election on the line, he offers our undocumented youth a temporary solution that cheats them of legal status. Why didn?t he keep his promise to push immigration reform? Instead, Obama has deported more people than any other president in this country's history. With friends like these, who needs enemies?"
​

and as per usual, you only address one point in my post, which made several, and you don't even do that right. But hey, as long as you keep posting something, you can tell yourself you haven't "lost" right?

Have you considered going to law school??? You're a GOOD ARGUER, DUDE!

 

[Spartanmack]

WHY would you count removals as the same thing? that's stupid. deportation is a formal process, just sending the same guys over and over the border again is completely different.

That article you posted undermines it's own stats:

Bush oversaw a lot more returns, but, experts note, it’s hard to say how many more individual immigrants he actually deported. Many people tried and failed to make multiple border crossings. Each one would count in the statistics separately. This is true of all immigration data, but experts say it’s much more true of returns, just because the record-keeping is so informal. Even attempting to compare Bush’s numbers to Obama’s is “a fool’s mission,” says Ruthie Epstein of the ACLU. Even though it’s likely more people were escorted back over the border under the last president than this one, we’ll never know how many
​

My post wasn't misleading. Hilariously even a Republican group made the same claim in an ad:

A group known as American Principles in Action is running an ad targeting Hispanic voters in Nevada, trying to weaken their support for President Barack Obama.
​

"Don’t be fooled by President Obama’s words," the narrator says. "He’s not committed to immigrants. He only wants our vote. With the election on the line, he offers our undocumented youth a temporary solution that cheats them of legal status. Why didn’t he keep his promise to push immigration reform? Instead, Obama has deported more people than any other president in this country's history. With friends like these, who needs enemies?"
​

and as per usual, you only address one point in my post, which made several, and you don't even do that right. But hey, as long as you keep posting something, you can tell yourself you haven't "lost" right?

Have you considered going to law school??? You're a GOOD ARGUER, DUDE!

Apologies, I meant Salon. Where is your data to indicate "returns" are "just sending the same guy over and over again"? That is pure speculation and completely disregards the cost involved in trying to get into the US illegally - it's not something poor latinos have the resources to attempt over and over. And by the way, several people who have been "removed" have been caught coming over the border again so saying "it's a formal process" doesn't make it anymore effective. While it definitely happens for both returns and removals, there's no data regarding the recidivism rates of those returned vs. those removed. The less expensive process of returns was used because it is faster, cheaper and provides a way to get non-felon border crossers out without a lengthy and costly "formal process".

And the article doesn't undermine it's own stats. Despite being from the left leaning New Republic, it doesn't really take a side. What it does is present all the data (rather than half or less of it) then adds commentary summarizing both sides' arguments. The only real conclusion it draws is that comparing GWB's and BO's numbers is like comparing apples and oranges (that's where NR's leftist bias comes in - rather than conceding that BO is not the deporter-in-chief border hawk Salon says he is and he hasn't in fact deported more people than Bush, they say the numbers aren't comparable).

As for your quote of a political Ad, let me just say LOLOLOLOL - you really found the smoking gun with that one. No chance those guys were sending a misleading ad targeted at BO's base to try to sway them from supporting him. Good one chump. You're a really SUCKY ARGUER, DUDE.

And if I blow up the main point of your post by pointing out a massive flaw in your data, I don't really see much point in addressing the rest of the nonsense like "the article surmises this or that". It's a fucking Salon article, whatever they "surmize" is irrelevant. With respect to your data about spending, you didn't provide any comps for border security spending before BO or any detail of what that spending went toward. You just say it's up so that proves Barry is a border hawk. But for all we know, Barry is just spending more money on fewer total deportations by using a more costly method so Salon and other idiots spin the story to make it look like he's kicking more people out of the country when in fact, he is not. It's a waste of time. And no, I've never considered going to law school but clearly, based on my experience with you, there is no correlation between having a JD and being a "good arguer".