Gun control

[redandguilty]

Any interest in moving the conversation over here? Here's an Obama quote that suggests it will stay in the news:

"in the coming weeks, I'll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens - from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators - in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this."

The article also mentions a couple 2009 "enforce the rules we have right now" positions that haven't been brought up much on this board, but I think might grow in popularity as the discussion continues.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/17/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-obama-idUSBRE8BG0N220121217

 

[Michchamp]

supposedly after the VaTech shootings, in Virginia they rushed to close the "loopholes" that let that kid buy pistols & ammo. but I read other reports they didn't actually FUND the compliance programs necessary to give effect to the laws. I suppose this probably happens a lot, and in a lot of places.

and of course, ineffective laws are then cited by gun nuts and the NRA of the reason why laws don't work and we don't need any more laws and regulations...

 

[redandguilty]

Two thought:

If you want to talk about gun violence rates in the US, it shouldn't be to complain about semi-automatics with massive clips. The bulk of the homicides involve handguns. Other types of guns are used at a rate comparable to knives.

5 of the 12 most deadly shootings in US history (not sure what counts/what doesn't) have happened since 2009. In terms of overall death, these things are a drop in the bucket, but they're also driving forces for these conversations and a reason to ask "is something changing and if yes, what?" This is also a reason to bring up the semi-auto, massive clip weapons.

 

[redandguilty]

supposedly after the VaTech shootings, in Virginia they rushed to close the "loopholes" that let that kid buy pistols & ammo. but I read other reports they didn't actually FUND the compliance programs necessary to give effect to the laws. I suppose this probably happens a lot, and in a lot of places.

and of course, ineffective laws are then cited by gun nuts and the NRA of the reason why laws don't work and we don't need any more laws and regulations...

I'm getting close to becoming a single issue voter, the single issue being campaign finance reform.

 

[Michchamp]

Two thought:

If you want to talk about gun violence rates in the US, it shouldn't be to complain about semi-automatics with massive clips. The bulk of the homicides involve handguns. Other types of guns are used at a rate comparable to knives.

5 of the 12 most deadly shootings in US history (not sure what counts/what doesn't) have happened since 2009. In terms of overall death, these things are a drop in the bucket, but they're also driving forces for these conversations and a reason to ask "is something changing and if yes, what?" This is also a reason to bring up the semi-auto, massive clip weapons.

well, in regards to the difference here, these mass shootings occupy a different realm than gang violence or liquor store holdups. they tend to target the general public, at unexpected times; it's like a risk you can't prepare for. whereas, gang bangers, biker gangs, liquor store owners, etc. have assumed some of the risk that they might be victims of gun violence.

 

[TheVictors]

well when douche bags at the NRA are finally recognizing that something needs to be done and that their Org needs to be part of it ...yeah, well finally maybe something will come of it.

 

[Slick]

the convesation will go on for a bit at least...feinstein is introducing an assault weapons ban bill again in the new year....and even NRA poster boy Joe Manchin is saying a discussion needs to be started.

 

[byco42]

the convesation will go on for a bit at least...feinstein is introducing an assault weapons ban bill again in the new year....and even NRA poster boy Joe Manchin is saying a discussion needs to be started.

I was surprised to learn that there are approximately 9,000,000 guns in Canada.

 

[Slick]

I was surprised to learn that there are approximately 9,000,000 guns in Canada.

and a 10 year mandatory minimum for using a loaded weapon while in the commision of a crime.

I live a 5 minute border crossing away from Murder City USA , do theystill refer to Detoilet as that ? anyway...we probably have 1 gunshot murder every 2 or 3 years here in Windsor...tough to argue with that stat.

 

[byco42]

and a 10 year mandatory minimum for using a loaded weapon while in the commision of a crime.

I live a 5 minute border crossing away from Murder City USA , do theystill refer to Detoilet as that ? anyway...we probably have 1 gunshot murder every 2 or 3 years here in Windsor...tough to argue with that stat.

Canada's violent crime rate/100,000 is more than 2x that of U.S. Gun homicides per 100,000 in Canada is .76. U.S. approx. 2.68. Just numbers to consider. And I don't live in Michigan anymore.

 

[Slick]

my little piece of the North is pretty much gun free , not bad for living 5 minutes from a cess pool....good border security I guess

 

[byco42]

my little piece of the North is pretty much gun free , not bad for living 5 minutes from a cess pool....good border security I guess

It's not all a cess pool. But it's not the city I knew 50 years ago, or even 45 years ago, when I used to bus down to Tiger Stadium.

 

[redandguilty]

Median household income in Detroit: $26k, in Windsor, $63k. Detroit's problems are bigger than gun laws.

 

[Slick]

Median household income in Detroit: $26k, in Windsor, $63k. Detroit's problems are bigger than gun laws.

guns dont flow across the border as much as 1 would think though

 

[redandguilty]

Here's a pro-gun control anecdote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

Australia banned auto- and semi-automatic weapons and launched a massive mandatory buyback program. It's not an entirely fair comparison, but gun related homicides and suicides plummeted.

It's important to note that the homicide stat is considered statistically insignificant due to the low rate of homicides to start.

 

[evolutionkb]

Murder rates are affected by many things. Of course it's fucking complicated and it's all relationships and not causation. Gun control, education level, socioeconomic status(and the difference between the rich an poor), and religion all affect it.

 

[redandguilty]

I've also seen a stat kicking around citing a government survey saying that nearly 100,000 crimes are prevented each year through the use of a gun. The bulk of the time, the gun is displayed but not fired.

 

[biggunsbob]

Until people stop listening to the NRA nothing will get changed.. Everything should be on the table including certain aspects of guns and magazines and maybe a better system of background checks..... My father a hunter for over 60+ years of his life was a card carrying NRA member until he ripped up his card ten years ago. He was tired of the NRA being another fundraising organization of the republican party..

But i have heard our idiot Governor and others purpose arm our school teachers.. I see they don't have enough to do already in teaching our kids. Now we want them to save our kids too. Typical response from the right when this type of shooing happens. Why not create some jobs for ex-military or retired police officers.. Professionals should have the guns on school campuses only not a teacher or administrator who just took a concealed weapons class so he or she could carry a gun..

Why is it we can talk about amending other amendments but when it comes to the 2nd amendment everyone freaks out.. News flash.. The amendment was written when it took over a minute to load a gun not when there
are AR's with a zillion rounds in them...

Not one person on the left that i know wants to take away anyone's guns but as a nation there has to be a common ground so we can save people from the gun violence in America.. Holy crap enough is enough...

 

[tsmith7559]

the gun sits there, doing nothing. so its the guns fault.
lets eliminate all cars because some people choose to drink then use it as a weapon. Its the cars fault, no? It was the size and speed of the car that kills. Look at all the accidents because someone is drunk or high behind the wheel. I say eliminate all cars and have mass transit. Cars kill.
Maybe its to many video games being created, dam, they're all violent, lets ban all of them. Movies, ban all the violent ones. The clown in Aurora probably doesnt go on his shooting spree if that movie wasnt made. Its not his fault, its the movie. So what does Colorado do, legalize pot, lets put the guy in a better state of mind before he blows people away or runs them down in his car, but hey, afterall its the guns fault not the guy or the pot.

We have evil people in our society fueled by?? the gun? or the crap we watch and listen to?

 

[Mitchrapp]

It's not all a cess pool. But it's not the city I knew 50 years ago, or even 45 years ago, when I used to bus down to Tiger Stadium

Yes it is, all bad.

I don't have a problem with the NRA but some guns need to be taken away from the public. Yet, as pointed out above, handguns are what causes many of the big crimes and people should have the right to defend themselves. The problem is too many people who should never own guns do but there is just too many illegal ways to purchase ones. So I'm not sure new laws would help with that.

And Bob, not all NRA members are Republicans so don't just blame Republicans for lack of gun control.