Gun control

[evolutionkb]

I've also seen a stat kicking around citing a government survey saying that nearly 100,000 crimes are prevented each year through the use of a gun. The bulk of the time, the gun is displayed but not fired.

And I've seen a stat saying that there are more accidents with guns than there are crimes prevented.

Most crimes are committed with handguns, something like 97%.

I saw person on FB commenting how they should train teachers to use firearms and to keep a gun locked up in the classroom. Wouldn't that just make it easier on those that want to do harm? Kid is tired of getting bullied, but his parents don't own guns so he just uses the one at the school that is a right there?

 

[tinselwolverine]

the gun sits there, doing nothing...

Very good point...except when a military assault rifle is being used to slice little children into smithereens in an elementary school...

...technically, that doesn't count as sitting there, doing nothing....

 

[Michchamp]

Very good point...except when a military assault rifle is being used to slice little children into smithereens in an elementary school...

...technically, that doesn't count as sitting there, doing nothing....

The next line will be: "yeah, but that's a gun in the hands of a deranged lunatic. law abiding citizens don't deserve to lose their rights because deranged lunatics kill people!"

and then it's like...

:ashamed:

 

[byco42]

Who came up with the term "assault weapon?"

 

[JScottWriter]

If I remember correctly it was William Hung.

 

[Michchamp]

Who came up with the term "assault weapon?"

if i remember correctly, the US military came up with the term "assault rifle." it denotes a weapon that can be used at long range, like a rifle, but also go full-auto for close range combat. this was post-WWII.

currently all full-auto firearms are heavily restricted in the US; you need a special license to buy and possess them. what is at issue is semi-auto versions of assault rifles, and the questions of why anyone would need to buy one when you can hunt with a hunting rifle or shotgun.

not an expert of course, but seems to me the mechanics and grip of an assault rifle - even the semi-auto versions - makes them more lethal than standard rifles or even handguns... they're designed to facilitate shooting lots of human beings quickly.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Who came up with the term "assault weapon?"

With regard to this event, I got the term from the cop.

"The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon," Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance said. "The trajectory of the shots and all of the ammunition used in the horrible crime will be examined."

From ABC News/Yahoo News.

 

[redandguilty]

And I've seen a stat saying that there are more accidents with guns than there are crimes prevented.

Most crimes are committed with handguns, something like 97%.

I saw person on FB commenting how they should train teachers to use firearms and to keep a gun locked up in the classroom. Wouldn't that just make it easier on those that want to do harm? Kid is tired of getting bullied, but his parents don't own guns so he just uses the one at the school that is a right there?

You have to include injury accidents, not fatal accidents, to clear 100,000, but I don't entirely understand the 100k crimes prevented stat yet. (Does it or doesn't it include police use?)

Fatal accidents dropped from 1500 to 600 from '89 to '09. But I think the majority of those 600 are children because I read something about 500 accidental child deaths per year.

There are more gun suicides than homicides, 17k and 10k.

I do think guns in the classrooms would do more harm than good. You're talking about a handful of chances to prevent tragedy vs the diligence and mistake free maintenance and security of hundreds of thousands of guns. I could probably be persuaded to have security with access to arms in some cases.

 

[Thumb]

It's really more the blame of the gun manufacturers and sellers than anyone.

20 years ago if you walked into most sporting goods stores (Dunham's as example) you would find hunting rifles, shotguns, and a few pistols, along with a few replica rifles.

Walk into one now, and the racks are dominated by AR-15, or Kalashnikov, or H&K generics. Literally more than any other type of useful firearm. And the glass case displays for handguns have tripled in size.

Now it's a safe bet that I have more firearms than probably anyone who posts here (most are part of a collection) but even I think it's silly that so many people should want to possess a weapon firing a 5.56 NATO round (.223 Rem) which is too small of a caliber to hunt with, and with a magazine capacity exceeding any hunting rules.

The fact is the manufacturers know there is a big market for these weapons, the sellers know there is a big market, and they know the consumers don't have many practical reasons to have them, and the NRA protects all blindly without really thinking about it.

But that said, I believe it's the right of Americans to own firearms, and while bad things happen, it's similar to the right to buy/and consume alcohol, some people will do it responsibly, others will not and people will die. There just is no easy solution.

 

[Michchamp]

It's really more the blame of the gun manufacturers and sellers than anyone.

...

But that said, I believe it's the right of Americans to own firearms, and while bad things happen, it's similar to the right to buy/and consume alcohol, some people will do it responsibly, others will not and people will die. There just is no easy solution.

I agree. and it's time people start to realize the NRA is not a civil rights organization dedicated to protecting a constitutional right; they are a manufacturer's lobby (one of many for the firearm industry.). Knowing where they stand might help people see through myths they like to propagate regarding threats to ownership

when the DC handgun ban was overturned, the original plaintiff (Heller) wasn't a member of the NRA, didn't own a gun, and was just an extreme libertarian who felt that he didn't like any restrictions on his rights, period.

he claimed the NRA actually tried to discourage him from filing the lawsuit at first, and admitted to him that the existence of the DC handgun ban was highly lucrative for them as a recruitment/fundraising tool and they didn't really want it to go away, despite what they told the mouthbreathers that paid their membership dues. the NRA only intervened in the lawsuit on behalf of the plaintiff when it became impossible for them to save face by staying out of it because it became apparent the suit would succeed in overturning the ban.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The re-introduced Feinstein bill isn't even going to require a single citizen to turn over a single gun.

It's going to allow currently posessed assault weapons to be "godfathered;" although it is going to impose the 2nd Amendment rights violation of requiring those owner to put safety locks on them.

I guess that's probably part of an insidious plot by the government to impose tyranny on all of us; do it before all the patriots have a chance to unlock their assault weapons.

 

[Michchamp]

the world would be safer with more guns... so it would be super-safe if we had guns just lying around all over the place. nobody would try any monkey business knowing that the guy next to them can just grab a gun and blow them away, no questions asked. see that? 100% safe.

 

[Mitchrapp]

An episode of the great show All in the Family, Archie went on the News and discussed you'd be safer on a plane if it got hijacked if all the passengers were armed. It was a pretty funny episode but anyway, I think you make a good point michchamp.

 

[tinselwolverine]

An episode of the great show All in the Family, Archie went on the News and discussed you'd be safer on a plane if it got hijacked if all the passengers were armed. It was a pretty funny episode but anyway, I think you make a good point michchamp.

I remember that!!!

 

[evolutionkb]

A person on my FB commented that he is thinking of getting an assault weapon similar to the one in the shooting. He said they are good for "varmint shooting", specifically coyotes. I don't know why a regular rifle wouldn't be fine. They kill deer just fine.

Another thing I've been wondering, I've seen it said quite a few times against gun control. Criminals are going to get guns either way, otherwise they wouldn't be criminals. All gun control will do is make it harder for regular citizens to get guns. So fuckin what? It's harder. You can still get them. They made it harder for teens to get driver's licenses too, but they still get them.

 

[Thumb]

A person on my FB commented that he is thinking of getting an assault weapon similar to the one in the shooting. He said they are good for "varmint shooting", specifically coyotes. I don't know why a regular rifle wouldn't be fine. They kill deer just fine.

Another thing I've been wondering, I've seen it said quite a few times against gun control. Criminals are going to get guns either way, otherwise they wouldn't be criminals. All gun control will do is make it harder for regular citizens to get guns. So fuckin what? It's harder. You can still get them. They made it harder for teens to get driver's licenses too, but they still get them.

The flawed logic in that thinking is the people who tend to go on these shooting sprees, are not criminals beforehand.

And anyone convicted of a felony can't purchase/possess a firearm anyways, so it's a hindsight theory. Gun control has nothing to do with criminals.

 

[tsmith7559]

the flawed logic is you cant solve an individual problem with a collective solution.

I certainly dont want this govt lecturing us on gun control laws when they supplied thousands of guns to criminals, drug cartels, etc in Mexico.

 

[byco42]

The re-introduced Feinstein bill isn't even going to require a single citizen to turn over a single gun.

It's going to allow currently posessed assault weapons to be "godfathered;" although it is going to impose the 2nd Amendment rights violation of requiring those owner to put safety locks on them.

I guess that's probably part of an insidious plot by the government to impose tyranny on all of us; do it before all the patriots have a chance to unlock their assault weapons.

You are not paying attention, Tinsel. Government is so far up our asses that our collective uvulas are tickling. This is not a free society we live in, but we're so complacent that we are unaware of the systematic overtaking of our basic rights that government has effectively accomplished in the last 100 years. It can do what ever it wants, when ever it wants and we can do nothing about it. That implied power is tyranny.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Well, I do agree with you that it's an oligarchy, and the republicrats and the special interests are all engaged in a kabuki dance, to fool the rest of us into thinking that they are not in cahoots; as they slice up the pie amongst themselves, behind closed doors, and leave the rest of us the crumbs.

And, it's a very hard party to crash.

But I don't know if I call it a Tyranny, I mean I was able to come live in Los Angeles-it was 30 years ago but if I want to leave Los Angeles and move to New York or Dallas or whatever, I can do that; and if I want to pursue a new career or business endeavor, to a degree I can attempt that too.

And, I can voice text prose to this message board, using my iPhone; and I wouldn't have been able to do that 100 years ago.

And I have come to be very fond of my iPhone.

So much so, that in fact if anyone from the government wants to take it away from me they are going have to pry it out of my cold dead hand.

 

[byco42]

Whatever we can do in this country is because government has not prohibited it or gives its tacit approval, which can be revoked or altered at any time. It has no restrictions anymore. It doesn't even consider the possibility of abiding by them.