Inauguration

[b311j]

Separation of Church and State? I think I counted 8 different prayers being given during the inauguration. How in the hell is that not promoting religion by the Government?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Separation of Church and State? I think I counted 8 different prayers being given during the inauguration. How in the hell is that not promoting religion by the Government?

Because there is no separation of church and state; at least not in the Constitution itself, although I believe that term has been used in judicial review.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." is the specific language of the 1st Amendment.

The prayers were led by pastors of many denominations and none of them were recognized as being the state religion.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is considered to have originated with President Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter he wrote to a religious group that wanted to separate itself from a larger religious group and members of the group had reached out to Jefferson, fearing that the government wouldn't allow them to separate themselves.

 

[biggunsbob]

Getting all religion out of politics would be so freaking refreshing.

 

[Michchamp]

Because there is no separation of church and state; at least not in the Constitution itself, although I believe that term has been used in judicial review.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." is the specific language of the 1st Amendment.

The prayers were led by pastors of many denominations and none of them were recognized as being the state religion.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is considered to have originated with President Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter he wrote to a religious group that wanted to separate itself from a larger religious group and members of the group had reached out to Jefferson, fearing that the government wouldn't allow them to separate themselves.

the practical application of the language of the First amendment is that there can be no religious displays on government property or at government-sponsored functions. basically if public funds were used for it, it should not be used to support or promote any religion.

seems simple enough, but Christians don't think it should apply to them.

Allowing prayers from multiple religions is just a half-assed way to weasel around the clear Constitutional prohibition against it.

Doesn't make it okay or Constitutional, just makes it harder to challenge in court.

 

[Michchamp]

Getting all religion out of politics would be so freaking refreshing.

Amen, brother!

 

[tinselwolverine]

the practical application of the language of the First amendment is that there can be no religious displays on government property or at government-sponsored functions. basically if public funds were used for it, it should not be used to support or promote any religion.

seems simple enough, but Christians don't think it should apply to them.

Allowing prayers from multiple religions is just a half-assed way to weasel around the clear Constitutional prohibition against it.

Doesn't make it okay or Constitutional, just makes it harder to challenge in court.

Well, for what it's worth, I didn't pray along with any of them while I watched it on TV in my living room.

 

[b311j]

Multiple religions allowed, but no secular representation. All are welcome as long as you believe in some form of a higher power....

Zealotry is growing.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Getting all religion out of politics would be so freaking refreshing.

How about getting politics out of religion.

 

[Michchamp]

Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always.

No, don't.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Multiple religions allowed, but no secular representation. All are welcome as long as you believe in some form of a higher power....

Zealotry is growing.

.

Well what would a secular benediction sound like?

"Non powerful and never living nothing, we beseech nothing of you, inasmuch as you don't exist?"

 

[biggunsbob]

How about getting politics out of religion.

Christians are the biggest hypocrites. Just look who they voted into the white house and why? I stand by my statement. Religion has no place in America politics at all? Yet we have to coddle all Tax-exempt religious organizations? Novel concept . Make them pay taxes!

 

[Gulo Blue]

.

Well what would a secular benediction sound like?

"Non powerful and never living nothing, we beseech nothing of you, inasmuch as you don't exist?"

https://seculargratitude.wordpress.com/humanist-grace/

 

[tinselwolverine]

https://seculargratitude.wordpress.com/humanist-grace/

Mine makes more sense...

 

[Michchamp]

How about getting politics out of religion.

A good start would be what Bob suggested: revoke the tax exempt status of any churches where the clergy urges members take any sort of political action.

 

[Gulo Blue]

A good start would be what Bob suggested: revoke the tax exempt status of any churches where the clergy urges members take any sort of political action.

Where do you draw the line? I'm against Churches taking positions for or against candidates, but I wouldn't stop them from anti-war protesting.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The Pope is talking about walls again.

“In the social and civil context as well, I appeal not to create walls, but to build bridges,” he said, according to the AP. “To not respond to evil with evil. To defeat evil with good, the offense with forgiveness. A Christian would never say ‘you will pay for that.’ Never.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pope-francis-prays-for-migrants-and-refugees/

 

[b311j]

Christians are the biggest hypocrites. Just look who they voted into the white house and why? I stand by my statement. Religion has no place in America politics at all? Yet we have to coddle all Tax-exempt religious organizations? Novel concept . Make them pay taxes!

 

[Gulo Blue]

But how much of that $83 billion would have to come out of the social services churches provide? THIS LINK, which I don't think is pro-religion biased (it comes at it to debunk the claim that Catholic charities provide half the social services in the US), estimates that just the Catholic cut of it is $30 billion. 22% of the US is Catholic, so that $30 billion is probably not the lion's share of religious provided social services. It could easily be well over $83 billion. There's a fair chance this idea would take from one hand and give to the other. Zero net gain. Could be significantly worse than zero net gain if religions are more cost effective than government agencies and I'd argue they might be since they utilize a lot of volunteer labor.

 

[Michchamp]

Where do you draw the line? I'm against Churches taking positions for or against candidates, but I wouldn't stop them from anti-war protesting.

don't engage in political activities on tax-exempt property, in the capacity of a preacher.

so reverend/priest can go to an anti-war rally, speak out, etc. he has a First Amendment right to do that.

He can't do that in church.

he can preach about Christ's message of peace and non-violence in Church, but he can't explicitly tie this to current events.

he can say he views abortion as wrong, but should parse out that its a personal decision and should not need a political solution (eg a ban). he should not advocate political solutions to anything. he should stick to his mythical
mumbo jumbo, and leave it at that.

religion is a personal choice; religious practice is free to be conducted in the private sphere.