Jesus was married

[tinselwolverine]

Nothing for my "Tinsel" comment? I thought that would get a reaction for sure.

You mean about Timothy?

 

[Gulo Blue]

You mean about Timothy?

Yeah. Maybe the point didn't land without the spoken tone.

Good point, Tinsel.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yeah. Maybe the point didn't land without the spoken tone.

Good point, Tinsel.

Oh.

Even if I had heard it spoken I wouldn't have gotten it.

Maybe if the speaker had accented it like you did when you italicized I might have.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Sometimes...I hate being bad at internetting.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't know, you might like some of Atlas Shrugged.

I don't like empty platitudes, so no, you're wrong.

 

[KAWDUP]

good points, of course. and I don't think it's the first text to suggest Jesus had a wife, either.

presumably the church conducted campaigns to destroy all texts/teachings to the contrary of theirs. that should be obvious... just look at how aggressive they were at times in enforcing official church dogma through show-trials, banning books, witch hunts, inquisitions, excommunications, etc. so it shouldn't be surprising that there's a scant record of conflicting writings... they would've been destroyed whenever church authorities could get there hands on them. and this had been going on for over 1,000 years... even as late as the 1500's, Spanish priests were burning writings from the Mayas.

Most of those "campaigns" came after the books of the New Testament had been determined. Those campaigns seem to be concerned with what was considered heresy in the early church. Many of the texts destroyed in your so-called campaigns were discounted long before any attempt was made to destroy them. Not justifying them, just providing some more information.

Certainly a large majority of the violence perpetrated against Christians and non-Christians alike are not the same kind of war that atheists wage against Christians nowadays, but I am not sure how it supports your viewpoint that most Christians = Bad, most Atheists = Not Bad.

Your generalizations are showing again. Power corrupts and evil was rampant, but it usually didn't have anything to do with a belief in the resurrection of Christ.

http://www.churchhistory101.com/century1-p9.php

Not a great link but the first I found with information on early church - and early non-church writings.

 

[Michchamp]

Most of those "campaigns" came after the books of the New Testament had been determined. Those campaigns seem to be concerned with what was considered heresy in the early church. Many of the texts destroyed in your so-called campaigns were discounted long before any attempt was made to destroy them. Not justifying them, just providing some more information.

...

it appears you are trying to justify them.

 

[KAWDUP]

it appears you are trying to justify them.

Certainly no less than you here:

. . . I mean it's a little more hypocritical of the Pope to order a crusade than it is for Stalin to order some churches burned. Stalin never claimed to be head of atheism. and Stalin never claimed to be divinely inspired and linked to heaven, or whatever, as an unbroken chain of a religion going back to the son of god.

Were you trying to justify what Stalin did? Probably just providing some more information.

Oh wait - could that be considered another straw man? I know how you love those.

 

[Michchamp]

Certainly no less than you here:



Were you trying to justify what Stalin did? Probably just providing some more information.

Oh wait - could that be considered another straw man? I know how you love those.

it's not a straw man... I gave my reasoning for why I thought it was more hypocritical for a Pope - who is an alleged 'Holy Man' - to call for crusades, inquisitions, etc., than it was for Stalin to order churches destroyed and clergy locked up. a pretty straightforward point, no?

it seemed to me by saying the church ordered books destroyed after the New Testament was "finalized" was a way to justify such campaigns. not sure why it matters when they did it. its still just their version of a story, not the truth. it didn't become "true" because some church council standardized the text.

 

[KAWDUP]

it's not a straw man... I gave my reasoning for why I thought it was more hypocritical for a Pope - who is an alleged 'Holy Man' - to call for crusades, inquisitions, etc., than it was for Stalin to order churches destroyed and clergy locked up. a pretty straightforward point, no?

it seemed to me by saying the church ordered books destroyed after the New Testament was "finalized" was a way to justify such campaigns. not sure why it matters when they did it. its still just their version of a story, not the truth. it didn't become "true" because some church council standardized the text.

No its the truth for entirely different reasons.

BTW - there have been some really evil popes throughout history. Did you ever read Dante's Inferno? They held way too much power, which certainly corrupted them, but that does not change my point.

It doesn't change being the Bible, just because you think evil people perpetrated information destruction.

 

[Michchamp]

No its the truth for entirely different reasons.

BTW - there have been some really evil popes throughout history. Did you ever read Dante's Inferno? They held way too much power, which certainly corrupted them, but that does not change my point.

It doesn't change being the Bible, just because you think evil people perpetrated information destruction.

I just realized it's "Good Friday" so I will stop arguing and be nice to you.

I wondered why there were so few people on the train this morning. Maybe I can leave work early?

 

[KAWDUP]

I just realized it's "Good Friday" so I will stop arguing and be nice to you.

I wondered why there were so few people on the train this morning. Maybe I can leave work early?

No one would question if you wanted to be less than available from 12:00-3:00.

As kids, we weren't allowed to play outside, run around inside and play games, or even read a book. As we got a little older, we were allowed to listen to the soundtrack from Jesus Christ Superstar. How screwed up is that?

If I can get out of here around 3:30, it will only be an hour and 15 to get home. One of the lightest traffic days of the year, or so I am told.

 

[Thumb]

I will say one thing for you Catholics....I love getting fish dinners on Friday's during lent. Local VFW, Knight of Columbus, etc.

So tonight, in honor of you, I'll go pick up, and enjoy my fish and chips/slaw dinner. Don't say I never said anything good about your religion.

 

[Michchamp]

No one would question if you wanted to be less than available from 12:00-3:00.

As kids, we weren't allowed to play outside, run around inside and play games, or even read a book. As we got a little older, we were allowed to listen to the soundtrack from Jesus Christ Superstar. How screwed up is that?

If I can get out of here around 3:30, it will only be an hour and 15 to get home. One of the lightest traffic days of the year, or so I am told.

I will say one thing for you Catholics....I love getting fish dinners on Friday's during lent. Local VFW, Knight of Columbus, etc.

So tonight, in honor of you, I'll go pick up, and enjoy my fish and chips/slaw dinner. Don't say I never said anything good about your religion.

maybe we should pay homage to these christian gods of theirs, out of respect for the bounty they have brought us today.

my family will sacrifice one of the neighborhood squirrels on our altar* tonight, and burn its entrails.

*meaning the big concrete slab I park the Champmobile on

 

[tsmith7559]

oops
online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304178104579535540828090438

 

[byco42]

Removing Jesus from His Cross is a 2,000-plus-year-old pastime for those who have failed to discover on their own the meaning of their existence. So they attack it instead.

 

[Michchamp]

oops
online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304178104579535540828090438

do you know how to post links?

and anyways, I'm trying to figure out exactly how they are claiming this is a forgery, and it's not clear to me. sounds like the guy claiming it's a forgery is basing his claim on the fact that another document in the collection (one known to be a forgery) looks similar, so his point is that everything in the collection must be a forgery.

the guy claiming it's a forgery is also a young theologian from a Evangelical school, who is part of an initiative funded by the jesus-freaks who own Hobby Lobby. Link. And from that article, it doesn't sound like there's scientific agreement that it is a fake:

Roger Bagnall, a renowned papyrologist who directs the Institute for the Study of the Ancient World at New York University, and who early on deemed the Jesus? Wife papyrus likely to be genuine, said in an interview about the skeptics, ?Most of the people taking this view wanted it to be a fake, and they haven?t asked critical questions about their own hypothesis.?​

Removing Jesus from His Cross is a 2,000-plus-year-old pastime for those who have failed to discover on their own the meaning of their existence. So they attack it instead.

whatever. believing in such nonsense is an even longer past time, with an even less reputable history than blind faith. I'll always side with the skeptics, I guess. I'm just a glass-half-full kinda guy.