LA police shooting

[zyxt9]

Surprised others have taken so long to post about this one.

While I'm not sure why it takes so many police officers to subdue 1 guy, it seems pretty clear he was resisting arrest even after being tased. Can clearly hear officers saying 'drop the gun' more than once. Three different officers shot him, so something must have happened to cause that response...but difficult to say exactly based on the eyewitness video I've seen...maybe the bodycams will provide more understanding...but I hope this doesn't result in more violence and rioting. Seems to me the cops in this situation had some justification, or at least should be extended some benefit of the doubt until more info is available. 'Drop the gun' at a minimum seems to indicate things were being escalated by the suspect, yet the bystanders still seem to question the decision and my guess is the person who took the video was thinking they were wrong and submitted it to the media with the belief that the cops were wrong, and expecting societal backlash against the cops.

At a minimum the media is willing to stir the pot by making it seem the guy was defenseless when he was shot. I see CNN's headline is 'LAPD kills man on ground', so the media seems to be hoping this blows up into more riots so they can get more revenue from the story.

 

[Michchamp]

cops would never lie, zyxt, and the policemans are keeping us safe so it's important to believe what they say and obey their orders.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Whom are we talking aboot?

This kind of crap happens every day out here, eh?

 

[zyxt9]

True or False: Resisting arrest is a crime.

Just because you believe you are innocent of a crime, you do not have the right to resist arrest. You have the right to an attorney and the right to defend yourself in a court of law. IF the police use unnecessary force and you are an innocent victim, you even have the right to pursue a lawsuit against the police. However, when the police are arresting you, you do not have the right to resist and doing so is a crime, right?

Now, should resisting result in your death? No, I don't believe it should provided that your resistence does not threaten another person's life. Grabbing a cop's gun though...well, that would be an action that cops correctly perceive to be a threat to people's lives.

To me this all boils down to whether or not this guy actually had a gun and was attempting to use it (not sure why else he would grab a gun, but maybe someone can enlighten me as to why this guy might grab a gun for reasons other than to threaten someone's life). Being ordered to drop the gun more than once and not complying...if that is what happened then to say the cops were unjustified in shooting him is a stretch at best.

But of course the media has already branded these cops as murderers it seems, I guess I shouldn't question the media's motives for doing that, right? lol

 

[zyxt9]

Whom are we talking aboot?

This kind of crap happens every day out here, eh?

LOL..i hear ya.

Here: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=lapd+kills+man&tbs=qdr:d

I try to let people choose their preferred source.

 

[turok]

The shooting was recorded on a smartphone and uploaded to the internet. Even if the major news outlets didn't report it, it would stilll have went viral anyway.

Those cops have no valid excuse or any good reason for killing that unarmed man, IMO.

None

 

[zyxt9]

Had not seen that the guy was homeless, potentially indicating he isn't in his right mind (trying to give benefit to fact not everyone who is homeless is crazy).

As I said before, I really don't understand why it takes so many cops to peaceably detain a suspect. They should be trained in ways to do this type of arrest without it escalating. If the guy is not mentally all there, then call in a shrink to talk to him.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[zyxt9]

The shooting was recorded on a smartphone and uploaded to the internet. Even if the major news outlets didn't report it, it would stilll have went viral anyway.

Those cops have no valid excuse or any good reason for killing that unarmed man, IMO.

None

Not certain whether he was armed or not. 'Drop the gun' makes it seem he was armed at some point. More evidence is needed. Hopefully bodycams will provide more details.

 

[turok]

Not certain whether he was armed or not. 'Drop the gun' makes it seem he was armed at some point. More evidence is needed. Hopefully bodycams will provide more details.

I went by what I watched this morning on the news, they didn't show the part of the recording when the allegedly homeless man was being shot MULTIPLE times, but for those cops sake, I hope that he did manage to wrest one of their guns away, but even if he had, they still couldn't disarm OR especially shoot to merely disable him?

 

[Michchamp]

True or False: Resisting arrest is a crime.

Just because you believe you are innocent of a crime, you do not have the right to resist arrest. You have the right to an attorney and the right to defend yourself in a court of law. IF the police use unnecessary force and you are an innocent victim, you even have the right to pursue a lawsuit against the police. However, when the police are arresting you, you do not have the right to resist and doing so is a crime, right?

...

shut up

 

[zyxt9]

shut up

LOL...look, I'm on the fence with this one. I'm more in line with Turok's last post. Doesn't make sense that these cops couldn't subdue this guy in a way that didn't result in his death. However, if the guy grabbed a gun and the cops deemed the use of deadly force was justified, then perhaps that is what ended up happening.

It doesn't make sense that these situations are escalating to the point where suspects are being killed. Sometimes it is beyond the control of the cops though, so I'm willing to wait and hopefully more evidence will be supplied. IF this one video is all we have to go by, I don't see a GJ submitting these cops for trial...but they better be able to provide some video that supports they were justified otherwise it is just another police cover up. Even with that video though, the training and tactics really need to be questioned. As I said, just because someone is resisting arrest it shouldn't result in their death provided said resistance is not jeopardizing someone's life.

 

[Michchamp]

the cops escalate these situations, almost always, and will continue to do so until a few of them start getting sent to prison for murder/manslaughter.

there have been two (2) prosecutions recently. there should have been a lot more.

also you missed this police shooting (or more accurately, summary execution): here.

all that crap about basically writing your own death certificate if you make the cops afraid/threaten them, is BS. Police work was never supposed to be a risk free line of work, and beyond that, these days police get compensated incredibly well.

 

[Michchamp]

if you're "on the fence," you're not thinking clearly, or only paying attention to the facts you want to.

 

[zyxt9]

if you're "on the fence," you're not thinking clearly, or only paying attention to the facts you want to.

No, just being diligent and preferring to wait a bit to see if more facts come to light. On the face of it, no one should be 100% certain yet. I'm sure you wouldn't want a jury to make up their mind based solely on the Opening Statements, especially ones that paint your client as the one who was wrong when you have evidence showing they were not and you have yet to even provide your Opening Statement. How many juries would convict in favor of your client in that situation? A little due process should be provided in this situation, should it not?

 

[Michchamp]

I'm not a litigator. Not every lawyer is like the ones you see on TV.

look, maybe further investigation will show that this guy really had a gun and was a huge threat to the half dozen cops around him aiming for him, but I doubt it. the point being, when you have the results you see here, there is clearly something wrong with American police tactics, and that needs to be publicly acknowledged and reformed. It looks like the DOJ's report on Ferguson might be a step in that direction.

 

[zyxt9]

the cops escalate these situations, almost always, and will continue to do so until a few of them start getting sent to prison for murder/manslaughter.

there have been two (2) prosecutions recently. there should have been a lot more.

also you missed this police shooting (or more accurately, summary execution): here.
all that crap about basically writing your own death certificate if you make the cops afraid/threaten them, is BS. Police work was never supposed to be a risk free line of work, and beyond that, these days police get compensated incredibly well.

Seems to me that situation will be correctly prosecuted, though it appears there might be grounds to look into the PD to some degree for attempted cover up (or similar) since the prosecutor had to bounce it up to the US attorney.

As for the second part, cops have the legal right to protect themselves despite the fact they are in a dangerous profession. Just because it is dangerous it doesn't mean they don't have the right to basic self-defense. I find their training and the Good Ol' Boy network to be the issue more than their right to use deadly force. They should not have that right revoked, but they do need better training on not being the reason situations escalate, attempting to use non-lethal methods (with proficiency requirements in those skills at greater frequency than their shooting proficiency).

The cocky nature of many in the police is a major issue. You see them breaking laws all the time with zero consequence and that promotes the cocky attitude of being above the law. Even something as basic as sitting through a red light is too much to ask for some. They do need to be held accountable, but it needs to be at all levels of the law, not just these cases. Until then, the cockiness will remain a problem. Cops need to respect the law the same as citizens do. That removes the "above the law" attitude, that reduces their belief they have the right to do as they want. But it has to change at all of these levels, even basic traffic rules and regulations. If it is an emergency, turn your lights on...but doing so needs to be transmitted back to HQ who can look at whether or not there was an actual emergency taking place that required lights and sirens, or were they just not wanting to sit at a red light so they flipped them because they are cops and therefore are too good to sit and wait like everyone else. It starts with things as basic as that.

 

[turok]

Looks like the homeless man was killed b/c he refused to obey a court order to take down his tent each morning, and these cops had confronted him often about it. They reportedly violently shook the tent while he was inside, then tased and dragged him out of it when he didn't immediately comply with their order to exit his tent. They already knew what his situation and mental state was. But yeah, they should \go ahead and agitate/tase/subdue and ultimately kill him just b/c he often could become stubborn and uncooperative.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lapd-shooting-20150302-story.html#page=2

 

[zyxt9]

I'm not a litigator. Not every lawyer is like the ones you see on TV.

look, maybe further investigation will show that this guy really had a gun and was a huge threat to the half dozen cops around him aiming for him, but I doubt it. the point being, when you have the results you see here, there is clearly something wrong with American police tactics, and that needs to be publicly acknowledged and reformed. It looks like the DOJ's report on Ferguson might be a step in that direction.

Litigator or not, you understood the point I was trying to make and that's all I was asking.

Police reform is absolutely needed throughout the country. The Good Ol' Boy system cannot be tolerated any longer, but it isn't going to be a quick and easy changeover unfortunately. There has to be enough good cops willing to report/snitch/stab-in-the-back the bad cops, or even the cops that just had a bad moment but overall are good cops. There are ways to reprimand for minor transgressions without jeopardizing a cop's job or career ladder aspirations, but turning a blind eye and not correcting transgressions should no longer be acceptable. Of course, some offenses like shooting unarmed suspects...well, some people should not be cops at all due to poor observation and decision making abilities. And some deserve to be prosecuted for murder. I leave it up to the courts to decide who deserves prison, but I think there is a difference between accidental shootings that should result in removal from the force and intentional non-justifiable shootings that should lead to prison.

Obviously this LAPD shooting is not an accidental one, and if these cops killed this guy without cause, then they need to be thrown in jail without possibility of parole IMO. I'm just not sure in part because 3 separate cops fired shots, so I want more info as to why 3 cops felt it justifiable to fire kill shots...or did only 1 take a kill shot while the other 2 were trying to fire non-lethal shots in an attempt to subdue (not that such action would be the norm, but if a taser is ineffective, then what??? - assuming no one had pepper spray, maybe attempted non-lethal shots are the next justifiable step...and maybe an attempted non-lethal shot ended up becoming a lethal one as it is impossible to know exactly where a bullet is going...which is another reason why it is crazy to think 3 cops would just fire rounds like that when the targeted suspect is so close to other cops who are still trying to wrestle with the suspect, a deflected bullet could easily have hit one of their own).

 

[zyxt9]

Looks like the homeless man was killed b/c he refused to obey a court order to take down his tent each morning, and these cops had confronted him often about it. They reportedly violently shook the tent while he was inside, then tased and dragged him out of it when he didn't immediately comply with their order to exit his tent. They already knew what his situation and mental state was. But yeah, they should \go ahead and agitate/tase/subdue and ultimately kill him just b/c he often could become stubborn and uncooperative.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lapd-shooting-20150302-story.html#page=2

IF true, then THAT is some seriously fucked up shit. And THAT is exactly the type of Good Ol' Boy bullshit that I am talking about needing to be eliminated. It also is making sense that the officer in charge was one of the guys who fired his weapon. He probably picked the team he knew would support these actions.

 

[turok]

IF true, then THAT is some seriously fucked up shit. And THAT is exactly the type of Good Ol' Boy bullshit that I am talking about needing to be eliminated. It also is making sense that the officer in charge was one of the guys who fired his weapon. He probably picked the team he knew would support these actions.

What is fucked up is WHY these officers felt that it was necessary to draw their guns on this guy to begin with. He apparently didn't have anything that could cause great harm to them, other than his feet and hands. They also had batons, tasers and of course, numbers.