LOL @ Bill O

[redandguilty]

The Church does not withhold communion from divorced spouses who have not remarried.

Would they actually withhold it from people that remarried? Not just in principle. Have you ever heard of it actually happening?

 

[Michchamp]

Would they actually withhold it from people that remarried? Not just in principle. Have you ever heard of it actually happening?

Yeah, I wonder that too.

I've never heard anything like that, except in high profile cases where the bishop/priest would actually recognize the person on sight. it's not like you have to swipe an ID card or anything.

weren't they going to refuse communion to John Kerry, or some pro-choice Democrat more recently? I figure they could make that threat stick, as most Priests presumably recognize him on site.

the mobility of the population in modern times seems to make it unlikely they would know. Back in my churchgoing days, I had been to masses all over the country when I'd travel w/family, and I don't remember anyone asking my parents if they were divorced & remarried, or if we were catholic before providing us with communion.

Would be funny if they put up signs behind the altar w/pics: "Do not provide the body of Christ to this man!"

 

[redandguilty]

weren't they going to refuse communion to John Kerry, or some pro-choice Democrat more recently?

Some Bishops were talking about it, but I don't think it ever happened.

I did a little googling and found an article from last year where a priest denied Communion to a lesbian at her mother's funeral and was reprimanded and put on leave. I found another case where Communion was denied to a teenager that had a picture of himself holding a sign at a marriage equality rally. I don't get the impression that it happens often. Apparently, American Bishops did some surveying and voting in 2004. 3 out of 4 were against withholding Communion and the vote to set a policy vs. leave it to local Bishops to decide went 183-6 in favor of leaving it up to the local Bishop.

 

[byco42]

Yeah, I wonder that too.

I've never heard anything like that, except in high profile cases where the bishop/priest would actually recognize the person on sight. it's not like you have to swipe an ID card or anything.

weren't they going to refuse communion to John Kerry, or some pro-choice Democrat more recently? I figure they could make that threat stick, as most Priests presumably recognize him on site.

the mobility of the population in modern times seems to make it unlikely they would know. Back in my churchgoing days, I had been to masses all over the country when I'd travel w/family, and I don't remember anyone asking my parents if they were divorced & remarried, or if we were catholic before providing us with communion.

Would be funny if they put up signs behind the altar w/pics: "Do not provide the body of Christ to this man!"

It's the responsbility of the person receiving Communion to make the proper decision, unless certain extraordinary circumstances reveal that a person is not in a state of Grace, which is the one condition required to receive Communion.

Priests and Eucharistic Ministers don't ask that question when they offer Communion. "Eucharist" means "thanksgiving" and the act of accepting it is a public declaration of thankfulness of the very activity itself as well as a public proclamation that you embrace and abide by all of what of the Church teaches.

 

[Michchamp]

can you be in a state of grace even if you don't embrace and abide by church teachings?

 

[tinselwolverine]

can you be in a state of grace even if you don't embrace and abide by church teachings?

Well, when you're in Tennessee, you certainly can be confident that you're in the state of Graceland, anyway.

 

[Michchamp]

Well, when you're in Tennessee, you certainly can be confident that you're in the state of Graceland, anyway.

not sure if that's good enough for Rome.

fun fact: when I'd get on to I-57 south of Chicago headed toward Champaign, IL back in the day, I'd see the sign for "I-57 South: Memphis" and feel a powerful attraction to keep going until I reached Graceland.

I did the math though, and that's an 8 hour drive though. I'm too sensible of a person to get carried away on a whim for 8 hours. I'd probably turn around well before I hit Missouri.

 

[byco42]

can you be in a state of grace even if you don't embrace and abide by church teachings?

I don't know. I'd never presume. Much has to do to with circumstances, spiritual path and where you were raised. The person born in Kenya with little or know knowledge of Catholicism or the Muslim raised in Pakistan who lives a virtuous life I would hope is in good standing with God.

Jesus said there is only one unforgivable sin, after all.

 

[Thumb]

It's funny that the one thing that is unpardonable is not murder, rape, or incest, but a thought.

 

[byco42]

It's funny that the one thing that is unpardonable is not murder, rape, or incest, but a thought.

If you understand the gravity of that one unpardonable sin, you probably would realize that the same person would also capriciously do these other acts as well, willfully and in full knowledge of their import. Or, worse, would influence others to do the same.

 

[tinselwolverine]

If you understand the gravity of that one unpardonable sin, you probably would realize that the same person would also capriciously do these other acts as well, willfully and in full knowledge of their import. Or, worse, would influence others to do the same.

What is that? Selling one's soul to Satan?

 

[Michchamp]

vote Republican?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Own every Barbara Streisand album she's ever made?

 

[Michchamp]

Own every Barbara Streisand album she's ever made?

I could see that leading to all the other stuff he mentioned.

 

[Michchamp]

Or is it people that claim to be Blondie fans, but only own their Greatest Hits album?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Or is it people that claim to be Blondie fans, but only own their Greatest Hits album?

Both could be dangerous to one's mortal soul, in the wrong, easily impressionable vulnerable hands...

 

[Thumb]

If you understand the gravity of that one unpardonable sin, you probably would realize that the same person would also capriciously do these other acts as well, willfully and in full knowledge of their import. Or, worse, would influence others to do the same.

The unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the so called "Holy Ghost".

See I just committed that sin, but I don't see how you equate that with any other sins, or that I influence anyone else to do the same.

To be perfectly honest, I find that most unpardonable sin, very similar to the days of the former U.S.S.R. or even present day Islamic states where speaking out again either authority or the Prophet is punishable by death and damnation.

I realize the actual implications of what was written in Mark 3:29, and Matthew 12:31, and 12:32 is not as simple as me saying "so called" when referring to the "Holy Ghost", but I do see the flaw in allowing every possible transgression to be forgiven, but what one might say or think, only to themselves.

Pretty Draconian I would say.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the so called "Holy Ghost".

See I just committed that sin, but I don't see how you equate that with any other sins, or that I influence anyone else to do the same.

To be perfectly honest, I find that most unpardonable sin, very similar to the days of the former U.S.S.R. or even present day Islamic states where speaking out again either authority or the Prophet is punishable by death and damnation.

I realize the actual implications of what was written in Mark 3:29, and Matthew 12:31, and 12:32 is not as simple as me saying "so called" when referring to the "Holy Ghost", but I do see the flaw in allowing every possible transgression to be forgiven, but what one might say or think, only to themselves.

Pretty Draconian I would say.

Blaspheme the Holy Ghost?

That's the unpardonable sin?

As in "the three men I admired most...the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost..."

Who caught the last train for the coast?

I never knew the Holy Ghost was really that important.

I mean, I had heard of the Holy Ghost, as being part of the Trinity; but let's face it; the stars of the Trinity are the Father and the Son; the Holy Ghost is to the Trinity kinda like what Joey Bishop was to the Rat Pack. Kinda like what Horshack was to the Sweat Hogs.

I mean, the whole Gospels and stuff is about Jesus, and everything before that is about the Father's relationship to the Jewish people.

The Messiah was projected in the Jewish Bible; whether Jesus turns out be that I guess we'll all find out in the end (or not, if the end is just eternal nothingness, but if that's the case we really won't give a fuck) and the rest of it was all about the Father, and the whole thing, and the Father tormenting Abraham and Isaac and Noah and Joseph and David and Simon and everybody else for what that fuckass Adam had done, and what that conniving bitch he was married to had done too, I guess, and I guess if I had been the Father, I might have been a little pissed off myself....

...but...

Where is the Holy Ghost in the Old Testament?

Really.

Really?

Seriously?

The Holy Ghost?

Holy Fuck!

 

[TheVictors]

My Episcopalian Mother and ordained Minister of some 25yrs now had to get the permission from the Archbishop to remarry ..... again.

Then again, she's an ordained WOMAN and ordained by the Anglican Church and married to another ordained Episcopal minister ....also a divorcee.


Jesus, God has such a confusing list of rules for all the various denominations!

 

[tinselwolverine]

All I can say is, this importance of the Holy Spirit thing...it really has me thrown for a loop.

Who has ever heard any person, who professing to be a follower of Christianity, say "I love God, and Jesus is my Lord and Personal Savior...but...that Holy Spirit mother fucker...he's a real son of a bitch; I don't give two shits what Mark or Martin 2.0 or whatever says..."...?

We've all seen God portrayed by, amongst others, George Burns, Morgan Freeman and Alanis Morissette; and we've seen Jesus played by numerous actors...but the Holy Spirit...who the hell has ever played him?

Well, an imdb search yields this: No results found for "the holy spirit"

Not ONCE - not one single time in the history of all eternity has the Holy Spirit been portrayed by anybody on the big screen.

Not one time.

I don't know; maybe it's like a Mafia family; maybe God is old, and Jesus is really just a figure head, and it's the Holy Spirit calling the shots behind the scenes, completely undetectable, I just don't know...

Anyway, if I were casting a movie with the Holy Spirit as a major character, the first person I would want to read for the part would be Richard Lewis....

After that Pacino and maybe Joe Pesci; but I see the Holy Spirit as being kind of neurotic...

Maybe Woody Allen; but I think my first choice is still gonna be Richard Lewis...