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Matthew Stafford comes in as No. 9 QB in NFL

boogerlovejoy said:
It's a tough argument with Stafford. Those of us who believe, myself included, simply don't have as much "concrete evidence" as the doubters do. And that's fine. I think #9 is a top 4 NFL QB right now. Behind Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Yes, that means I think he is CURRENTLY better than Ruthlessraper, Willson, Rivers, Luck, Carr and Wentz (though its damn close).
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I think you are wrong about Ben, Wilson & Rivers.
 
boogerlovejoy said:
It's a tough argument with Stafford. Those of us who believe, myself included, simply don't have as much "concrete evidence" as the doubters do. And that's fine. I think #9 is a top 4 NFL QB right now. Behind Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Yes, that means I think he is CURRENTLY better than Ruthlessraper, Willson, Rivers, Luck, Carr and Wentz (though its damn close).

In the last 7 years, the Lions are 57-55. That is the 2nd best 7 year stretch in FRANCHISE history ('91-'97....60-52) i believe. Though it's not great, I think the Lions would be maybe 40-72 with an average qb in there. Think Jay Cutler or Josh McCown. I don't believe Stafford gets enough credit for winning here in Detroit because he's basically made some really bad teams look good. He makes guys better. He wins ball games. The only reason we MADE 3 playoff appearances in that time is because of him (and CJ).

So I'm with you Tony. He's better than given credit for. That said, fair or not, he's got to win SOMETHING to make it to the HOF. QB's simply can't get there without a few playoff wins.

Also, just for fun discussions......let's say we would have passed on Stafford in '09......assuming we wouldn't have gotten another top flight QB (because they NEVER hit the market)......here are the other options we would have had.

'09 - Other than Stafford, the only QB's drafted that year that were even decent were Josh Freeman and Butt Fumble. Would we have won MORE with them? No fuckin way. NEXT

'10 - Only QB that was worth ANYTHING is the mysterious case of Sam Bradford. Decent QB. Fragile. Likely to have missed many more games than Stafford did because of injury. And WHY do teams keep throwing money at this guy?? Never won anything....never made the playoffs. Would we have won MORE with him?? Nope. NEXT

'11 - First interesting debate. Newton, Dalton, Colin K and Tie Rod Taylor all in this class. I think we can all agree that only Newton should be in the discussion. Personally, I don't think we would have won as much with Newton. I don't think he makes ANYONE better. He wins when he has GREAT teams around him......he doesn't make them great. Dalton is a guy....thats it. Colin just wasn't a very good QB, IMO. Great athlete.....amazing arm....but would have been a terrible fit in Detroit. Do we win MORE with any of these guy. Unlikely.

'12 - Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Russ Wilson and Kirk Cousins. Some very good debates here. Luck and Stafford have extremely similar numbers. Staffords are a tick better.....IMO. Those Colts teams werent great.....but he won some games. Russel Willson......well.....it's really hard to deny the results.....but he has been on some REALLY GOOD teams, too. It will be interesting to see what Russ does this year. The big question.....do we win MORE with any of them?? Luck - If healthy, maybe one or two more games. Wilson.....thats a hard one for me. Id say, like Luck, MAYBE we win a couple more games. Cousins? No.....he's simply not as good as Stafford.

'13 - What a shitty QB class! Geno Smith and Mike Glennon are the best here. SO........No discussion needed.

'14 - Bridgewater, Carr and Garrapollo.....No, No and we'll see.

'15 - Famous Jameis and Marriota. Nope

'16 - Goff and Wentz. Damn it, Wentz looks like the real deal. He's probably the 5th best QB in football right now.


Anyway......I was bored so I thought I'd go through the years. Not a lot of good QB's drafted in the last 10 years. I'd say its Stafford, Wentz, Wilson, Luck, Cam, Carr, Cousins, Tie Rod (underrated qb) and Bradford.....in that order (sorry Garrapollo, you've played 7 games.....lets see what a whole season looks like)
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Now or career? Ben won 3 SB and a bunch of other stuff. The thing is all years count when looking at HOF. Ben is in for sure, Matt isn't close. And no way Matt is better than Wilson, talk about consistent poor offensive lines.



I'm sorry but if you Think Matt one day will be HOF based on now as the old saying "what are you smoking." I don't really care if he's the 4th best QB now.. his numbers say no. No playoff accomplish or awards like MVP say hell no. And one big difference assuming he is 4th best now.. the other 3 are so far ahead of him who cares who's 4.
 
Mitchrapp said:
Now or career? Ben won 3 SB and a bunch of other stuff. The thing is all years count when looking at HOF. Ben is in for sure, Matt isn't close. And no way Matt is better than Wilson, talk about consistent poor offensive lines.



I'm sorry but if you Think Matt one day will be HOF based on now as the old saying "what are you smoking." I don't really care if he's the 4th best QB now.. his numbers say no. No playoff accomplish or awards like MVP say hell no. And one big difference assuming he is 4th best now.. the other 3 are so far ahead of him who cares who's 4.
Click to expand...

So......this was my quote in the post......maybe you missed it.

-So I'm with you Tony. He's better than given credit for. That said, fair or not, he's got to win SOMETHING to make it to the HOF. QB's simply can't get there without a few playoff wins".

And yes, I think Matt Stafford is a better QB than Wilson. I can't argue they've had bad offensive lines in Seattle.....they've also had one of the best defenses of all time. ALL TIME. Statistically and by the eye test. Average QB's could have won games in Seattle. Fuck, Shawn King won games in TB when that defense was in their prime. He was TERRIBLE. Jim McMahon and Jeff Hostetler won SB's with defense. Betty White could have played QB for the '85 Bears and won a title.

There are other things that factor in to how good a QB is. It's not all numbers. I fully admit that my ranking of Stafford is based mostly on how I see him play and not all by the numbers. I think too many people on this board are casual football fans that don't really care about the other factors involved in winning. That's fine. I'm not putting anybody's "fandom" down. Just my opinion.

Mitch....is it you that admitted you don't even watch Lions games?
 
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boogerlovejoy said:
So......this was my quote in the post......maybe you missed it.

-So I'm with you Tony. He's better than given credit for. That said, fair or not, he's got to win SOMETHING to make it to the HOF. QB's simply can't get there without a few playoff wins".

And yes, I think Matt Stafford is a better QB than Wilson. I can't argue they've had bad offensive lines in Seattle.....they've also had one of the best defenses of all time. ALL TIME. Statistically and by the eye test. Average QB's could have won games in Seattle. Fuck, Shawn King won games in TB when that defense was in their prime. He was TERRIBLE. Jim McMahon and Jeff Hostetler won SB's with defense. Betty White could have played QB for the '85 Bears and won a title.

There are other things that factor in to how good a QB is. It's not all numbers. I fully admit that my ranking of Stafford is based mostly on how I see him play and not all by the numbers. I think too many people on this board are casual football fans that don't really care about the other factors involved in winning. That's fine. I'm not putting anybody's "fandom" down. Just my opinion.

Mitch....is it you that admitted you don't even watch Lions games?
Click to expand...


No, that was Tony's made up stuff. I watch when I can, though I don't watch all. Though I get the highlights. Certainly enough to have an opinion. How can you say that about Wilson I assume you don't watch all his games..Get where I'm going.


I must have missed some of your posts. Sorry. A couple -3 playoff wins I don't see that doing it. Get on a big game like a SB and play well. Still he needs more individual awards.. something. More pro bowls, though they can be silly. All Pro's would help and an MVP. He should be playing after the top 3 retire. And even with all that there are guys with MVP that aren't in the hall.
 
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I think Matt is great. Hof you need to be one of the best all time at your position. What is he the best all time at? Yards is the only thing i can think of. You shouldn't get in for just being great at yards.
 
mhughes0021 said:
I think Matt is great. Hof you need to be one of the best all time at your position. What is he the best all time at? Yards is the only thing i can think of. You shouldn't get in for just being great at yards.
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Ironically he was never first in yards for a season. In fact his last 4 seasons starting with 2014 he was 9th, 8th, 6th & 3rd. So one top 5. So he isn't even best at that.. Esp. with throwing from behind so often..
 
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I didn't realize the first ranking on this thread was the ranking after the 2016-2017 season. I'm sure the most current ranking is in this thread somewhere but I'm not going to look for it.

Current ranking

http://www.nfl.com/network/top100

Ironically, he comes in at #9 on the QB list and #31 overall again.

1 Brady
3 Wentz
8 Brees
10 AR
11 Wilson
18 Ben
25 Cam
29 Ryan
31 Staff
 
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tomdalton22 said:
I didn't realize the first ranking on this thread was the ranking after the 2016-2017 season. I'm sure the most current ranking is in this thread somewhere but I'm not going to look for it.

Current ranking

http://www.nfl.com/network/top100

Ironically, he comes in at #9 on the QB list and #31 overall again.

1 Brady
3 Wentz
8 Brees
10 AR
11 Wilson
18 Ben
25 Cam
29 Ryan
31 Staff
Click to expand...

Seems like a great list. Think you could put Cam, Ryan and Staff in any order and probably not get too many complaints.
 
Rivers is way underrated. That's one thing Detroit doesn't have on SD, being shitty for so long. Besides winning a few playoff games he throws for more yards than Matt has the past years.. 7 pro bowls. Not sure how anyone could rank him lower than Matt. Maybe because he's quiet.. No idea.
 
Mitchrapp said:
No, that was Tony's made up stuff. I watch when I can, though I don't watch all. Though I get the highlights. Certainly enough to have an opinion. How can you say that about Wilson I assume you don't watch all his games..Get where I'm going.


I must have missed some of your posts. Sorry. A couple -3 playoff wins I don't see that doing it. Get on a big game like a SB and play well. Still he needs more individual awards.. something. More pro bowls, though they can be silly. All Pro's would help and an MVP. He should be playing after the top 3 retire. And even with all that there are guys with MVP that aren't in the hall.
Click to expand...

Lmao. I don't make up stuff, you imbecile...

And "watching highlights" then voicing your opinion on the subject makes you look like a full blown retard. Carry on tho lol
 
boogerlovejoy said:
So......this was my quote in the post......maybe you missed it.

-So I'm with you Tony. He's better than given credit for. That said, fair or not, he's got to win SOMETHING to make it to the HOF. QB's simply can't get there without a few playoff wins".

And yes, I think Matt Stafford is a better QB than Wilson. I can't argue they've had bad offensive lines in Seattle.....they've also had one of the best defenses of all time. ALL TIME. Statistically and by the eye test. Average QB's could have won games in Seattle. Fuck, Shawn King won games in TB when that defense was in their prime. He was TERRIBLE. Jim McMahon and Jeff Hostetler won SB's with defense. Betty White could have played QB for the '85 Bears and won a title.

There are other things that factor in to how good a QB is. It's not all numbers. I fully admit that my ranking of Stafford is based mostly on how I see him play and not all by the numbers. I think too many people on this board are casual football fans that don't really care about the other factors involved in winning. That's fine. I'm not putting anybody's "fandom" down. Just my opinion.

Mitch....is it you that admitted you don't even watch Lions games?
Click to expand...

Damn right he doesn't watch Lions games lol. Then has the fucking balls to voice his opinion on the team. It's beyond idiotic but look at the source...
 
tonyballs said:
Lmao. I don't make up stuff, you imbecile...

And "watching highlights" then voicing your opinion on the subject makes you look like a full blown retard. Carry on tho lol
Click to expand...


Did you even see what I wrote? Of course not.
 
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