Moneyball II

[spockmaster]

The Oakland Way

http://www.nbcsports.com/baseball/mlb/oakland-way

Very interesting article. I sure wish Dombrowski did some of this. Especially the part about going for pitchers who have fucking control. Or did this:

"But as Zaidi says -- and now we're getting to perhaps the most significant point of Moneyball II -- the A's do not take anything for granted. They do not go into the season believing that ANYBODY will get 600 plate appearances or make 35 starts or will have as good a year as last year. Billy Beane makes it clear: They will not make decisions based on what they hope will happen. Optimism is not a strategy."

"As Zaidi says, you will never see the A's draft a player with great tools who strikes out a lot more than he walks. They are aware that some of those toolsy players will figure things out and become stars. But they believe many, many more will miss. And so, they won't take that bet."

GEE I SURE WISH WE DRAFTED LIKE THAT

 

[spockmaster]

The way they look at pitchers would be nice too. We've got Blaine Hardy and his 3.91 K/BB ratio but mid/upper 80s fastball wallowing down in Toledo but we continue to employ Phil Coke simply because he has a 95 mph fastball and DD hopes he can somehow not suck anymore. Fucking ridiculous.


(Part of it is also because the Tigers see Hardy as a starter instead of a reliever so they're giving him innings for that, but also because they think he needs everything working to get ML hitters out simply because his fastball isnt a power one, per lynn henning.)

 

[biggunsbob]

Frustrating we don't have a better scouting system then Oakland with the money we have..

 

[Rebbiv]

The average fan doesn't understand "Moneyball", let alone "Moneyball II". Some actually like listening to Rod Allen.

 

[gotime909]

I'll just continue to enjoy beating Oakland in the playoffs EVERY time we play them.

 

[tigermud]

How many World Series appearances does the money ball have? Oh ok

 

[gotime909]

How many World Series appearances does the money ball have? Oh ok

Hey now, they did actually win one postseason series. Them and their 62 million dollar payroll were then swept by shitty DD and the Tigers massive 82 million dollar payroll.

 

[xer0]

I'll just continue to enjoy beating Oakland in the playoffs EVERY time we play them.

this.

I don't get the glorification of this OAK team, they haven't accomplished anything with their moneyball approach and keep losing to the 'shitty' Tigers teams DD puts together.

 

[spockmaster]

We've barely accomplished anything either, we've made 2 World Series and lost them both and lost the ALCS both other times we made the playoffs. We've beaten them a lot in the postseason too, but the last 2 times it took 5 very close games. Im not saying theyre perfect (and neither is the article saying that, if you read it), and Im not saying DD is horrible, but theres definitely things the A's do better than we do that I wish we did, especially things like draft strategy and the types of players we look for (toolsy hitters that rarely work out and pitchers with power arms but zero control being the 2 big ones I can think of.

Its worth wondering what Beane could do with a team that had the payroll we have.



Its also worth pointing out that Bill James got hired by the Red Sox in 2003 and they've won 3 World Series in 11 years, so that right there is an example of what you can do with a heavy sabermetrics influence on a big-payroll team.

 

[Rebbiv]

2011-2013 average

DET 92-70 Payroll $130.9 MIL (6 players/$98.0 MIL committed for 2015)

OAK 88-74 Payroll $65.9 MIL (5 players/$39.5 MIL committed for 2015)

 

[Thumb]

Don't forget if Crisp does not drop that fly ball in the ALDS that one year, we don't force game 5.

It's not like we stomped the A's in the playoffs, we just won the big must win games.

 

[biggunsbob]

The Boston Bill James 3 WS titles should shut you Moneyball haters up...


Do your homework before popping off.

 

[xer0]

The Moneyballers = the Tigers Bitches the last 3 postseason meetings.

no amount of spinning can change that fact.

Until they win a WS they shouldn't be lauded the way they are.

 

[biggunsbob]

Again Bill James is just about the father of all money ball stats X.., Maybe we do beat the A's in playoffs (not 1972 ))) But the process has worked real well for Boston... Read the article and tell me that our system could not use a little of that.... No wonder why we never finish the deal either... We should be better with all of the resources we have..

0-4 and 1-4 World series verses inferior teams pisses me off still...Don't get me started on last years collapse in the alcs..

 

[Thumb]

The Boston Bill James 3 WS titles should shut you Moneyball haters up...


Do your homework before popping off.

This post confuses me. Boston and the Moneyball idea don't really fit together. Those 3 WS titles ('04,'07,'13) their opening day payroll ranks were 2nd, 2nd, and 4th out of all 30 teams. :shrug:

 

[Thumb]

Again Bill James is just about the father of all money ball stats X.., Maybe we do beat the A's in playoffs (not 1972 ))) But the process has worked real well for Boston... Read the article and tell me that our system could not use a little of that.... No wonder why we never finish the deal either... We should be better with all of the resources we have..

0-4 and 1-4 World series verses inferior teams pisses me off still...Don't get me started on last years collapse in the alcs..

Bill James is the father of Sabermetrics, but I would not call them "moneyball stats" Sabermetrics are a part of every single MLB organization (even the White Sox) Beane just uses them to figure out who produces at the highest value vs. cost, and calls it moneyball.

 

[spockmaster]

I brought it up initially to show that heavy sabermetrics influence + large payroll can make a real difference since they said moneyball has failed to win a WS (despite being largely competitive with a low payroll + sabermetrics) since that was my real point in posting the article: what the Tigers could do with some more of these tactics and policies plus our payroll.

 

[tomdalton22]

I would trade the Tigers team for Oakland's right now and be happy about it! Oakland is a complete team.

 

[biggunsbob]

Bill James is the father of Sabermetrics, but I would not call them "moneyball stats" Sabermetrics are a part of every single MLB organization (even the White Sox) Beane just uses them to figure out who produces at the highest value vs. cost, and calls it moneyball.

I have just always thought that the Tigers should us more moneyball/sabermetrics stats for their baseball club.. We have all complained about how our position players coming up have a terrible approach at the plate .. I am tired of guys with low walk rates coming through West Michigan, Erie. and Toledo.

 

[gotime909]

3 game sweep!!! Outscored them 17-7 Beat them 13-1 in walks. Won the season series 5-2 with 4 games being in Oakland.

Tell me again how much better Oakland is...