NATO convention sucks

[tsmith7559]

I know this may be difficult for you to follow, but in saying that some elements of the tea party have espoused racist views, I'm not saying that the tea party is racist. I think my post was clear.

what elements...can you get specific???? I know MSNBC never gives details on these kinds of statements but maybe you can

 

[cheeno]

I haven't gone near or seen any of the protests in person, but the heavy police presence in and around the Loop is pretty eerie.

talked to an off-duty fireman outside a bar Saturday night, and he said around his firehouse, they're pretty cynical about the whole thing, insofar as the response is WAY overblown and absurd, given the number of protestors, and the fact that they were unarmed. he said anywhere he went you could count on there being a few dozen SWAT members being there... and that's on top of the regular uniformed CPD AND all the redneck/meathead rent-a-cops they've trucked in from Indiana and parts further south.

he was happy with the OT pay he was earning, however. supposedly all of it covered by the Feds.

Do you live and work in the Loop or just work there?

 

[Michchamp]

Do you live and work in the Loop or just work there?

neither. I live in a neighborhood and work in the suburbs.

 

[Michchamp]

what elements...can you get specific???? I know MSNBC never gives details on these kinds of statements but maybe you can

really? you can't even finish typing "tea party signs..." without google suggesting "racist."

again, not saying the entire movement or everyone associated with it is racist, but there has been an element of it at all their protests. similarly, not all the protesters there intended to commit violent acts.

indeed, the number of people arrested for even bumping police or trying to force their way through police barricades (acts that would absurdly get you charged with felony aggravated assault and mob action...) was quite small given the number who were in Chicago...

 

[TheVictors]

Tea Party doesnt raise many social issues, its primarily a fiscal movement

Right. When the "Tea Party" was invented, it was invented to fight "Government Waste and Spending."

Then, when Sarah Palin hitched her wagon to the Tea Party, it became representative of nothing but an en vogue, "grassroots" movement that was essentially anti-Obama and drew upon the implied and covert racism of "him" and "they" as being "against us."

From there, the "Tea Party" became whatever politicians wanted it to be, just as the term "moderate" is now being demonized while at the same time, out of the other face, Ronald Reagan is eulogized at every opportunity -- very much himself a moderate and very much appreciative of intelligent and thoughtful compromise.

The problem today is that stupid people have hijacked what was once the "fiscally responsible" party and turned it into an amalgamation of resentment and hate towards "them."

But understanding you get all your information from Fox News, I don't find it surprising that you cannot understand what MC and I are trying to explain.

The Tea Party isn't on face a racist movement, but it sure as hell draws upon its members' racism to drive emotion and energy. And when you have racist hillbillies already pissed that some "uppity Ni**er" is President of the United States, it becomes very convenient to fake indignation at policy and spending, when in reality the waste and spending under Bush was no different.

It's just that it's okay when a good old boy faux-Christian like Bush is in office.

 

[redandguilty]

Means nothing in today's world. When over 50% of Catholics vote for a dem. who is anti-life then something is wrong.

When voting occurs most seem to forget about their religious views and moral views. Some people vote for the one they find more attractive. That's some messed up logic.

Catholic Bishops sent out a letter prior to Obama/McCain vote saying abortion isn't the only "Catholic" issue involved. Taking care of the poor counts too.

 

[redandguilty]

really? you can't even finish typing "tea party signs..." without google suggesting "racist."

Yeah, but you can also google "liberals posing" and it will fill in "as tea party"

 

[tsmith7559]

really? you can't even finish typing "tea party signs..." without google suggesting "racist."

again, not saying the entire movement or everyone associated with it is racist, but there has been an element of it at all their protests. similarly, not all the protesters there intended to commit violent acts.

indeed, the number of people arrested for even bumping police or trying to force their way through police barricades (acts that would absurdly get you charged with felony aggravated assault and mob action...) was quite small given the number who were in Chicago...

still waiting for examples other than MSNBC bs....keep googling

 

[tsmith7559]

Right. When the "Tea Party" was invented, it was invented to fight "Government Waste and Spending."

Then, when Sarah Palin hitched her wagon to the Tea Party, it became representative of nothing but an en vogue, "grassroots" movement that was essentially anti-Obama and drew upon the implied and covert racism of "him" and "they" as being "against us."

From there, the "Tea Party" became whatever politicians wanted it to be, just as the term "moderate" is now being demonized while at the same time, out of the other face, Ronald Reagan is eulogized at every opportunity -- very much himself a moderate and very much appreciative of intelligent and thoughtful compromise.

The problem today is that stupid people have hijacked what was once the "fiscally responsible" party and turned it into an amalgamation of resentment and hate towards "them."

But understanding you get all your information from Fox News, I don't find it surprising that you cannot understand what MC and I are trying to explain.

The Tea Party isn't on face a racist movement, but it sure as hell draws upon its members' racism to drive emotion and energy. And when you have racist hillbillies already pissed that some "uppity Ni**er" is President of the United States, it becomes very convenient to fake indignation at policy and spending, when in reality the waste and spending under Bush was no different.

It's just that it's okay when a good old boy faux-Christian like Bush is in office.

tea party isnt a southern movement......its a fiscal/constitutional movement.....Tea Party didnt emerge when Bush was in office, however, many conservatives were not happy with the spending of his administration and therefore stayed at home during the 2006 elections. It really got out of hand when the dems controlled the spending during his last 2 years and he didnt veto a dam thing regarding spending

 

[TheVictors]

Where did I say anything about the "Tea Party" being a "southern movement?" I know exactly what the Tea Party was supposed to stand for and who its constituents are now, just as I understand what "Occupy Wall Street" was intended to represent and how you conveniently demonize that group while making excuses for the one you subscribe to.

Me, I don't subscribe to the ideologies of either.

But it doesn't mean I don't understand what each group is trying to say or what they come across as saying ....and all without having cable news have to tell me.


... but others like you, who have said they "attended Tea Party meetings" claim it was IN FACT organized during Bush and before Obama, and claim the movement is apolitical. I guess there is disagreement on that within the group, eh?

 

[tsmith7559]

Where did I say anything about the "Tea Party" being a "southern movement?" I know exactly what the Tea Party was supposed to stand for and who its constituents are now, just as I understand what "Occupy Wall Street" was intended to represent and how you conveniently demonize that group while making excuses for the one you subscribe to.

Me, I don't subscribe to the ideologies of either.

But it doesn't mean I don't understand what each group is trying to say or what they come across as saying ....and all without having cable news have to tell me.


... but others like you, who have said they "attended Tea Party meetings" claim it was IN FACT organized during Bush and before Obama, and claim the movement is apolitical. I guess there is disagreement on that within the group, eh?

like I said, conservatives were getting pretty upset with republicans in 2006. Since the Tea Party wasn't one event and just began to grow in local pockets its hard to tell when it began. In 2008 it began to really emerge because neither candidate represented a fiscal/constitutional candidate

 

[KAWDUP]

:bs:

Where did I say anything about the "Tea Party" being a "southern movement?" I know exactly what the Tea Party was supposed to stand for and who its constituents are now, just as I understand what "Occupy Wall Street" was intended to represent and how you conveniently demonize that group while making excuses for the one you subscribe to.

Me, I don't subscribe to the ideologies of either.

But it doesn't mean I don't understand what each group is trying to say or what they come across as saying ....and all without having cable news have to tell me.


... but others like you, who have said they "attended Tea Party meetings" claim it was IN FACT organized during Bush and before Obama, and claim the movement is apolitical. I guess there is disagreement on that within the group, eh?

:bs:

If this is what you think, then you really know very little about the Tea Party or what it means to be a "grass roots movement".

Making an uniformed general statement about the movement, is both ignorant and very much like chumpy would do. I figured that was beneath you Victors. Anyone can come out and demonize the entire group, similar to the Wallstreet Protestors - just more rhetoric if you ask me.

I get it - it is not worth your time to find out actually what it is all about, or what the majority of members actually believe, before spewing forth with all the generalities, but it is what we do here, right?

 

[Michchamp]

:bs:

:bs:

If this is what you think, then you really know very little about the Tea Party or what it means to be a "grass roots movement".

Making an uniformed general statement about the movement, is both ignorant and very much like chumpy would do. I figured that was beneath you Victors. Anyone can come out and demonize the entire group, similar to the Wallstreet Protestors - just more rhetoric if you ask me.

I get it - it is not worth your time to find out actually what it is all about, or what the majority of members actually believe, before spewing forth with all the generalities, but it is what we do here, right?

If I may chime in for a moment... the difference between OWS and the Tea Party is that OWS doesn't have billionaire sponsors behind it, organizing "spontaneous" events, sending out press junkets, ensuring security... (LINK) (LINK) (LINK) and no one in the Tea Party is getting the shit kicked out of them by the police at their rallies.

this is not to deny that a number of the people at these rallies are legitimately concerned about government spending and their plight in a nation with increasing income disparity... although, I'm guessing even fewer were consistent in opposing gov't spending and waste, going back to 2001 or earlier... but to call something this well-funded and organized a "grass roots movement" is FALSE.

 

[KAWDUP]

Intead of guessing, why don't you actually talk to some of the members of the actual group rather than getting all your opinions from the Huffington Post.

 

[TheVictors]

I don't see where I made any generalizations about the "Tea Party." I summarized what has happened to the movement from when it began to what it has become today and was actually rather active in Michigan grassroots politics at one point when living in Ann Arbor.

Sorry to have disappointed you, KAWDUP. Clearly there is not enough time or space on a message board to go into a detailed analysis on every issue and because I was largely addressing tsmith - the King of Generalizations and Assumptions - I felt I was being specific enough.

 

[Michchamp]

Intead of guessing, why don't you actually talk to some of the members of the actual group rather than getting all your opinions from the Huffington Post.

me or vic?

we've been over this before. I don't typically read the HuffPo. Or did you remember that, and were just trolling me?

 

[KAWDUP]

I certainly understand, but I have a firm belief that neither movement, OWS or TP, has leadership that is apolotical. A bummer, but still a steadfast belief of mine.

. . . but I will say that I have talked to many, many members of both movements, and while nether one is the same to everyone, I do get a sense of what things that most of these people are protesting against. They have some very valid points. It doesn't matter to me who is financing them. I just get a bit irked when either group is generalized into commie, pinko, anarchists, and racist, hick, bible thumpers. It is quite the opposite for the majority of the members of both movements.

The media will bastardize the negatives of both to further an agenda that gets spewed on this board incessantly.

I admittedly am not above the rhetoric, but if I have a choice of believing what I hear from the actual members vs hearing what nearly all media outlets sensatioanalize to get ratings, I can tell you right now which is more likely to help me shape my opinion.

It aint TV. :*)

 

[KAWDUP]

me or vic?

we've been over this before. I don't typically read the HuffPo. Or did you remember that, and were just trolling me?

Yes it was a poor attempt at trolling you.

. . . but to answer your question, I did mean you. You even used the word "guess" in your "chimed in" response.

Just seems like so much rhetoric that I get from all the media outlets. I like to see opinions shaped more by the facts rather than what some talking head spews out of their ass.

 

[Michchamp]

Yes it was a poor attempt at trolling you.

. . . but to answer your question, I did mean you. You even used the word "guess" in your "chimed in" response.

Just seems like so much rhetoric that I get from all the media outlets. I like to see opinions shaped more by the facts rather than what some talking head spews out of their ass.

so you are denying the claims that groups like Koch Brothers, et al are directly funding and directing the Tea Party?

it's not like the Koch's denied the reports when they came out. you'd think they would if they were false...

or are you pulling a tsmith and making a blanket assertion that any evidence that conflicts with your view of the Tea Party is a falsehood spread by liberals?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I never heard of the Tea Party Movement before Tax Day, 2009.

Shortly before that, the CNBC guy who reports from the Chicago Merc started screaming and shouting about the Stimulus bill and government deficits, and started yelling that they were going to have their own
Tea Party right there on the floor of the Merc.

Some have claimed that the Tea Party Movement took it's name from that event.

Rick Santelli, that's the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiCOb49vVVM

Anyway, local KABC was talking about the tax day protests, so I called in to ask "where the hell have these people been the last eight years?"