O-Line Youth

[Gulo Blue]

Wait a second. Is this just poorly executed sarcasm or what? In the (recent) past you've touted the WSJ article that corresponds returning experience on the o-line with overall success. You even brought it up prior to this season if I'm remembering correctly. Now, when the experience factor has gotten even worse with the coaches replacing (non performing) inexperienced players with even less experienced players...it's not a reason/excuse?

Last time I brought it up, I was pointing out that revisiting the article, half their predictions were bad. I think they said Alabama would struggle and ND would be strong in 2008. I still believe lines are more important than people give credit for, but it's not as strong a predictor as the WSJ was claiming.

Now I'm not saying oline youth isn't a problem, I'm just saying it doesn't explain why the line is as bad as it is. I think it's an important factor in general, but it isn't enough to explain how bad this line is. I'm still a big believer in lines, but our youth should limit us to having a fairly average season, not produce the worst game vs State in 45 years.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So M&B, your issue is with the coaches and the ability to identify and develop talent. Moving DG to WR was ...to get him and his large body on the field. He wasn't the greatest WR but he was in the Funchess/Chesson mold we're seeing now.

But you seem to feel that the team would have been better with DG on the bench, waiting for Denard to inevitably get hurt and assert the NEB game outcome would have been a M win under these circumstances.

I completely disagree.

I agree that he shouldn't have been on the bench, especially with our depth at WR, but he should have been taking enough snaps at QB that he could have been used as a backup. As I said, we only had 3 scholarship QB's last year, taking one permanently out of the mix was not a good idea.

Even more so because we saw what Devin could do at WR. He was not good at running routes, had trouble beating coverage and all and all - just wasn't great that the position. Certainly nothing that he would have learned in 1 season could have changed that. They had to have known he HAD to switch back to QB this year because we only would have had Bellomy/Morris as QB's otherwise. So taking him completely away from the position lost him valuable practice time for this year and hurt us at the end of last year when Denard went down.

Just my opinion, but it was a bad evaluation of the situation all around. If Gardner had been some awesome talent at WR, maybe I could see their position but he wasn't (at least in the time we saw of him - which was at least half the season).

 

[deathroh]

Last time I brought it up, I was pointing out that revisiting the article, half their predictions were bad. I think they said Alabama would struggle and ND would be strong in 2008. I still believe lines are more important than people give credit for, but it's not as strong a predictor as the WSJ was claiming.

Now I'm not saying oline youth isn't a problem, I'm just saying it doesn't explain why the line is as bad as it is. I think it's an important factor in general, but it isn't enough to explain how bad this line is. I'm still a big believer in lines, but our youth should limit us to having a fairly average season, not produce the worst game vs State in 45 years.

Ok, so I didn't exactly remember correctly.

If anyone is saying o-line youth is the only reason this team has struggled, that's a little out there. I just happen to think it's the biggest reason.

 

[hungry]

Well, we know he stopped getting snaps at QB - the coaching staff said exactly that last year. Gardner had been permanently switched to WR for the season after a few games in. They only gave him snaps at QB after Bellomy got destroyed and we needed a QB for the rest of the year.

Sure, everything is 20/20 in hindsight - but it's still concerning that the coaches thought Bellomy was = to or better than Gardner at the position. We don't know if Gardner would have done better, but at least we could have tried something different than watching Bellomy get blasted play after play.

As I said, it wasn't really an "emergency situation" because we all knew Denard had a history of exiting games with injury. I think there's every reason for the coaches to think Denard was going to get hurt. It should have been expected that, at some point, Denard was going to go down and we'd need a backup QB. It happened consistently all 4 years Denard was at Michigan.

Coaches aren't always truthful about what happens in practice

They probably figured Denard might get banged up or tired and have to come out for a few plays here and there, but he had never been knocked out of a game completely his entire career until then.

 

[hungry]

It's not like up until the Neb game, anyone was saying how stupid it was to have dg at wr. All the talk came after.

Some of the things said after the game were an attempt to not the Bellomy under the bus.

 

[Michchamp]

Coaches aren't always truthful about what happens in practice

They probably figured Denard might get banged up or tired and have to come out for a few plays here and there, but he had never been knocked out of a game completely his entire caterer until then.

I agree. I think sometimes their judgment isn't as clear as they want others to think, and they stubbornly stick by a guy for one reason or another. Or they just don't get along with a player and start another guy over him.

also, I'm not giving Hoke a pass for this "we're too inexperienced" crap.

I know he's trying to protect peoples' egos here, but it IS an excuse now. they were inexperienced... but played ok against CMU & ND... and they've seemingly played worse almost every week after that.

he should just avoid it and say we'll get them next year, without being too flippant about it.

 

[hungry]

The coaches could've just put dg in at qb during the Neb game. I don't buy the shit about not being ready to play qb. He could not have done worse than Bellomy.

 

[TheVictors]

The coaches could've just put dg in at qb during the Neb game. I don't buy the shit about not being ready to play qb. He could not have done worse than Bellomy.

Agreed. And this is why I don't buy the theory of keeping DG on the bench "just in case." That said, if he was working with the WRs all season and the week prior to Nebraska, he may not have been in on the gameplanning to the extent that "back up" Bellomy was.

Of course DG's athleticism could have accounted for some productivity that Bellomy could never generate, but I don't think inserting DG at that time, in that stadium, under those conditions would have changed the outcome.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It's not like up until the Neb game, anyone was saying how stupid it was to have dg at wr. All the talk came after.

Some of the things said after the game were an attempt to not the Bellomy under the bus.

Good point, but I think most of us were lead to believe, by the coaches, that Bellomy was a lot better than he was in that game. And teams have been known to sit talented kids on the bench. Heck, OSU has one of the better QB's in the big ten sitting on the bench behind Miller.

 

[hungry]

Good point, but I think most of us were lead to believe, by the coaches, that Bellomy was a lot better than he was in that game. And teams have been known to sit talented kids on the bench. Heck, OSU has one of the better QB's in the big ten sitting on the bench behind Miller.

They aren't shallow at WR, either

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

They aren't shallow at WR, either

But we were both shallow at QB and WR. Ultimately, Roundtree, Gallon, Dileo and Funchess should have been plenty (we just didn't know it at the time). I still think Gardner needed to be at least partially a QB until he proved he was irreplaceable at WR.

 

[hungry]

But we were both shallow at QB and WR. Ultimately, Roundtree, Gallon, Dileo and Funchess should have been plenty (we just didn't know it at the time). I still think Gardner needed to be at least partially a QB until he proved he was irreplaceable at WR.

Maybe he was

 

[tinselwolverine]

Maybe Lewan should start hazing some of the young guys to toughen them up.

 

[Michchamp]

Maybe Lewan should start hazing some of the young guys to toughen them up.

haha, maybe he has been.

now Incognito has provided him guidance on how to really take it to the next level.

side note: the Daily Show coverage of that yesterday was hilarious

 

[tinselwolverine]

haha, maybe he has been.

now Incognito has provided him guidance on how to really take it to the next level.

side note: the Daily Show coverage of that yesterday was hilarious

I wouldn't know.

I don't watch that commie show.

 

[Michchamp]

I wouldn't know.

I don't watch that commie show.

they dug up some video of Incognito at a bar, wasted out of his mind, shirtless, and ranting about some meathead thing while terrified normal people tried to get away from him without making eye contact.

John Stewart made the point that he was the epitome of NOT being "Incognito" at that moment.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I never watch commie television. The only shows I watch are FOXNews and the 700 club.

 

[alonzomoseley]

Several FR and RS/FR are rotating in. I've never been impressed with Schofield.

+1 I keep reading that Schofield is going to be drafted. I dunno, seems like I see a lot of Schofield standing in space without his hands on anybody, and often Gardener on the ground under Schofield's man.

 

[alonzomoseley]

Ok, so I didn't exactly remember correctly.

If anyone is saying o-line youth is the only reason this team has struggled, that's a little out there. I just happen to think it's the biggest reason.

The O-line is way, way out ahead of whatever is in second place, which I would say is a pedestrian running back.