Obama commutes Manning's sentence

[Michchamp]

Well, at least one news item in the "for us" column. If there weren't many during Obama's years, I don't have much hope there will be more going in the foreseeable future. at least he (Obama) did the right thing on this case.

 

[TheVictors]

What the hell did Peyton do now...? Beat Tommy Boy in the AFC Champ twice in a row??

That's not a crime ...it's just what happens when the Pattys play in Denver in the post-season.





Oh ...you meant Eli.

never mind.

 

[Spartanmack]

This discredits every moment of righteous indignation he's had against Russian hacks and Wikileaks.

I wonder if Snowden is considering castration in the next couple days to improve his chances at a pardon.

 

[Thumb]

This discredits every moment of righteous indignation he's had against Russian hacks and Wikileaks.

I wonder if Snowden is considering castration in the next couple days to improve his chances at a pardon.

Snowden didn't take his lumps though. He's hiding out in Putin's pool house.

Manning went though a courts martial, was found guilty, sentenced, and admitted wrongdoing.

And a whistle blower is not even in the same ballpark as foreign government sponsored hacking of our election process.

I'm guessing you know this already and only posted so you would have the opportunity to make a lame castration/transgender joke.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I have to admit, I don't have even a decent understanding of what Manning leaked. My opinion would entirely depend on what was leaked and if it was "right" to leak it. And by "right" I mean my own personal, I know it when I see it, view of right and wrong. 35 years is a really long time to be locked up. Looking at wikipedia, it says Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy, but found guilty of espionage and theft.

 

[Michchamp]

This discredits every moment of righteous indignation he's had against Russian hacks and Wikileaks.

...

cause both cases involve computer stuff, right?

 

[Michchamp]

Snowden didn't take his lumps though. He's hiding out in Putin's pool house.

Manning went though a courts martial, was found guilty, sentenced, and admitted wrongdoing.

And a whistle blower is not even in the same ballpark as foreign government sponsored hacking of our election process.

I'm guessing you know this already and only posted so you would have the opportunity to make a lame castration/transgender joke.

Snowden was only in Russia while in transit to asylum in South America. The US revoked his passport while he was in the air, and stranded him there, initially in the airport in Moscow. His own father confirmed this. He also said his son was probably better off there because the CIA couldn't get to him on Russian soil.

He's offered to return to the US if guaranteed he'll get a fair (read: civilian court, not military kangaroo court) trial. link. this would allow a jury to decide whether his "public interest" defense excuses his violation of US law. In Manning's case, she was convicted via court martial, and the judge refused to allow public interest as a valid defense.

 

[Michchamp]

I have to admit, I don't have even a decent understanding of what Manning leaked. My opinion would entirely depend on what was leaked and if it was "right" to leak it. And by "right" I mean my own personal, I know it when I see it, view of right and wrong. 35 years is a really long time to be locked up. Looking at wikipedia, it says Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy, but found guilty of espionage and theft.

read the wikipedia article on her.

the most famous - or notorious - file leaked was video of a US Army Apache machine-gunning Iraqi civilians on the ground, and the cavalier attitude of the pilot (his audio transcript accompanied the video). There were also accounts of US massacres of Iraqi civilians, and thousands of diplomatic cables that contained embarassing information about US activities in Iraq and around the world... massacres, support for local dictators, etc.

Manning sent all this to wikileaks, which published it in 2010

Manning took steps to avoid disclosing any ongoing operational information that could put Americans in harms' way.

The tapes embarassed the US by: 1) showing that - holy fuck we did some pretty nasty things to the Iraqi people; and 2) exposing sloppy military & diplomatic security. granted, he was in an Army Intelligence unit, but still, why the hell did an Army private have access to all this confidential, classified information? Including diplomatic cables? Stupid.

Also, nothing Manning disclosed lead to any actual dangers to US troops or civilians, despite what government and media hacks like to claims. and that came from testimony at Manning's court martial.

However... It did "harm US interests" depending on your point of view. it's been reported that the disclosures of massacres of Iraqi civilians by US troops lead to the Iraqi government refusing to grant immunity from Iraqi law to US personnel, so the US ultimately dropped the extension of force agreement and signed the withdrawal agreement (Bush negotiated it, Obama signed it).

"You won't let our troops massacre your people with impunity? we'll, I guess we'll be leaving then!"

 

[Mitchrapp]

I have to admit, I don't have even a decent understanding of what Manning leaked. My opinion would entirely depend on what was leaked and if it was "right" to leak it. And by "right" I mean my own personal, I know it when I see it, view of right and wrong. 35 years is a really long time to be locked up. Looking at wikipedia, it says Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy, but found guilty of espionage and theft.

But he only got 6 years.

This makes no sense. Is this really a repub. - demo thing? He did very bad things, many got fired because of it etc. These pardon's by Presidents are just stupid. It's okay I guess if you admit you were involved in espionage and theft. What's the point of a court.

 

[TheVictors]

Yeah, I was going to say s/he revealed that our military had killed civilians.

Something that American military has been doing since Me Lai, and God knows centuries before that ..

 

[Michchamp]

But he only got 6 years.

This makes no sense. Is this really a repub. - demo thing? He did very bad things, many got fired because of it etc. These pardon's by Presidents are just stupid. It's okay I guess if you admit you were involved in espionage and theft. What's the point of a court.

a lot of people petitioned for Manning to be granted a pardon/commutation, based on the fact that he had already been punished enough.

even the former lead prosecutor from Guantanamo, Col. Morris Davis, sent a letter to Obama on this, and added that if Manning had been an officer instead of an enlisted person, he would already have been out of prison, and would never have been subjected to solitary confinement and the other bad treatment he had pre-trial.

Petraeus also leaked classified material to his mistress and biographer to write his bio (!!!), but only got a slap on the wrist.

compare the motivations of each person & the punishment meted out...

 

[Gulo Blue]

Motivation should be a factor, but not so much of a factor that it gets her off the hook entirely. OK, based on this thread and light wikipedia skimming, I'll say 6 years isn't trivial. I don't know if there's a strong precedent out there. 35 feels like too much to me and 6 seems reasonable. Nothing would have been a mistake.

I wonder how many people's opinions would change if the sentence had been longer or shorter before Obama stepped in.

 

[Michchamp]

Motivation should be a factor, but not so much of a factor that it gets her off the hook entirely. OK, based on this thread and light wikipedia skimming, I'll say 6 years isn't trivial. I don't know if there's a strong precedent out there. 35 feels like too much to me and 6 seems reasonable. Nothing would have been a mistake.

I wonder how many people's opinions would change if the sentence had been longer or shorter before Obama stepped in.

not just 6 years... also stretches in solitary confinement, and she has reportedly been driven to attempt suicide twice (each time leading to more solitary confinement in a vicious circle.)

this person has suffered enough... all because she had a conscience, and couldn't sit there and watch the US slaughter Iraqi civilians like everyone else around her.

 

[Gulo Blue]

not just 6 years... also stretches in solitary confinement, and she has reportedly been driven to attempt suicide twice (each time leading to more solitary confinement in a vicious circle.)

this person has suffered enough... all because she had a conscience, and couldn't sit there and watch the US slaughter Iraqi civilians like everyone else around her.

There's a trade off. To need soldiers to be good soldiers and follow orders and you need them to have their own brains so they don't follow bad orders. But there's subjectivity involved. You can't just let people off the hook for all cases where they claim to follow their conscience. There's no way to have an ideal system.

I agree this person has suffered enough.

But I wonder if 6 just feels in the ballpark of reasonable because it's being compared to 35. If it was originally 6 years, and Obama was reducing it to 1 (too late for that, I know), I'm not sure I'd be reacting differently.

 

[Michchamp]

No, I think we should let people off the hook for all cases when they want to follow their conscience.

 

[Gulo Blue]

No, I think we should let people off the hook for all cases when they want to follow their conscience.

That's a nice idea, but how do you achieve it within our legal system?

 

[tinselwolverine]

That's a nice idea, but how do you achieve it within our legal system?

Prosecutors and judges have a certain amount of latitude with this already; although military prosecutions are substantially different than civilian prosecutions.

Is nobody else hearing that Julian Assange agreed to turn himself over to either the US or I think the Swiss - they or someone else wants him for sexual assault as I understand - in exchange for this commutation?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Prosecutors and judges have a certain amount of latitude with this already; although military prosecutions are substantially different than civilian prosecutions.

Is nobody else hearing that Julian Assange agreed to turn himself over to either the US or I think the Swiss - they or someone else wants him for sexual assault as I understand - in exchange for this commutation?

I thought there was some catch to it. Like it was only to the US, but there was no way he'd be transferred to Switzerland to face the sexual assault.

Looks like he backed off anyway because Manning's release won't be immediate.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...n-embassy-arrest-extradition-us-a7533911.html

 

[Michchamp]

That's a nice idea, but how do you achieve it within our legal system?

I forgot to mention SARCASM.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I forgot to mention SARCASM.

I usually feel like an idiot when I miss sarcasm on this board, but I'm way too tired for that right now. New puppy is keeping me up nights.