Oops "Good Guy With A Gun" shoots Bad Guy and other Good Guys

[Spartanmack]

Whoops. same old story:

Bad guy goes to town to kill a cop. He does. Good guy shoots and kills bad guy,
then other cops show up and shoot and kill the good guy, for reasons...

reasons being cops in America shoot first and ask questions later, and that's how we designed it to be.

Whoops! But more guns is the answer.

Lololol, this is literally the first time you?ve ever posted a story like this and you call it the ?same old story? a if that will confirm the bullshit claim that it happens all the time. You have no shame.

Conversely there have been numerous good guy with a gun stories with good endings which every reader knows and can see right through your bs. So pathetic

 

[Michchamp]

Lololol, this is literally the first time you?ve ever posted a story like this and you call it the ?same old story? a if that will confirm the bullshit claim that it happens all the time. You have no shame.

Conversely there have been numerous good guy with a gun stories with good endings which every reader knows and can see right through your bs. So pathetic

you're the one who keeps asserting that, and I ask you to post those stories, but you won't take your thumb out of your ass long enough to do that. so pathetic.

 

[Spartanmack]

you're the one who keeps asserting that, and I ask you to post those stories, but you won't take your thumb out of your ass long enough to do that. so pathetic.

I?ve posted several - to your 1.

 

[byco42]

you're the one who keeps asserting that, and I ask you to post those stories, but you won't take your thumb out of your ass long enough to do that. so pathetic.

Here's one! This was this week in Dallas.

 

[Michchamp]

I?ve posted several - to your 1.

I've posted three in this thread. You've posted none. I guess you were waiting for byco to do the work for you.

 

[Spartanmack]

I've posted three in this thread. You've posted none. I guess you were waiting for byco to do the work for you.

yeah, wrong again. the story for the basis of this thread clearly states it's unclear who shot the "good guys" but maybe you don't remember that, here's the post where I pointed that out...

great anecdote. You've been talking about this for years and you finally found one story that almost fits your nightmare scenario of innocent bystanders getting mowed down in large numbers - not quite as this seems to be a case where a bad guy w/ a gun shot some good guys with guns and killed one of them. In that time, how many stories have we read about where a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy? Still, if this doesn't prove we should disarm society and create an entire population of potential victims, I don't know what will.

You even say in the OP it's unclear who the shot the good guys.

Here's one from this thread...

Texas man stops church shooter

Here's another Arizona teen shoots armed intruder

Here's another one from a Texas church

Here's a list of 24 instances of armed citizens stopping mass shooters from 1991 through 2017 Obviously this isn't a comprehensive list of good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns but this alone is 8x your three (again, 3 is being generous since we don't know if that actually happened in the story that spurred you to make this thread where you consistently make an ass of yourself).

you can also do google searches for things like "store clerk shoots armed robber" and others like it and find dozens more stories. I know you will never give up though - you'll continue to make an ass of yourself with easily proven lies about the dangers of an armed citizenry. Looking forward to the next one.

 

[Michchamp]

yeah, wrong again. the story for the basis of this thread clearly states it's unclear who shot the "good guys" but maybe you don't remember that, here's the post where I pointed that out...



You even say in the OP it's unclear who the shot the good guys.

Here's one from this thread...

Texas man stops church shooter

Here's another Arizona teen shoots armed intruder

Here's another one from a Texas church

Here's a list of 24 instances of armed citizens stopping mass shooters from 1991 through 2017 Obviously this isn't a comprehensive list of good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns but this alone is 8x your three (again, 3 is being generous since we don't know if that actually happened in the story that spurred you to make this thread where you consistently make an ass of yourself).

you can also do google searches for things like "store clerk shoots armed robber" and others like it and find dozens more stories. I know you will never give up though - you'll continue to make an ass of yourself with easily proven lies about the dangers of an armed citizenry. Looking forward to the next one.

in your 24 instances (over the course of 30 years), looks like a couple of the shootings were already over before someone killed the shooter. a couple others we're stopped by security guards or off duty policemen, not random wannabe hero civilians packing heat. in one they even admit it's not clear if the shooter was actually stopped before he killed himself, but they included it anyway and in another the guy had a CC permit, but subdued the shooter without using a gun.

"memepoliceman.com" should do a better job cobbling together evidence to refute facebook memes, if they're going to come with all that attitude.

and of course, the fact that some of the shootings happening in the first place beg the question of whether we truly are safer with more guns. that was the implied point I was making here in this thread, but perhaps the implication wasn't clear enough

so instances like the one cited where the angry guy getting turned away from the strip club end in shootings and killings rather than fist fights... but hey, at least smith and wesson made money on it...

I still think we're better off with fewer guns.

 

[Michchamp]

here's another example of the cops shooting the wrong guy at a mass shooting, because he happened to be holding a gun, link. Alabama, 2018. the suspect wasn't stopped or apprehended... but hey, at least gun manufacturers made money on the incident as well.

 

[byco42]

I still think we're better off with fewer guns.

How many is one too many? The ones that you own?

 

[Michchamp]

How many is one too many? The ones that you own?

right, this is my fault... I'm the one who caused it, even though I duly submitted to background checks, and (while living in Illinois) got a FOID card, and keep my guns locked up and inaccessible in my closet.

just like global warming is my fault because I drive to work, not because I'm forced to since we designed like more than 99% of our communities as massive subsidies for the auto & petroleum industries, and they are not walkable, or have any sort of reasonable public transit option.

 

[tinselwolverine]

here's another example of the cops shooting the wrong guy at a mass shooting, because he happened to be holding a gun, link. Alabama, 2018. the suspect wasn't stopped or apprehended... but hey, at least gun manufacturers made money on the incident as well.

What I can tell ya?

People aren?t supposed to draw their weapons, I?m pretty sure, unless there?s an immediate clear and present danger to themselves or someone else.

I don?t think just hearing a gunshot constitutes that.

Guy shoulda kept his gun holstered and quickly but calmly headed for an exit.

Leave the job of the cops to the cops.

 

[Michchamp]

What I can tell ya?

People aren?t supposed to draw their weapons, I?m pretty sure, unless there?s an immediate clear and present danger to themselves or someone else.

I don?t think just hearing a gunshot constitutes that.

Guy shoulda kept his gun holstered and quickly but calmly headed for an exit.

Leave the job of the cops to the cops.

amen.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I see Ben Crump is in this story.

That guy sure gets around.

There is nothing in the story about anyone actually being shot by the suspected gunman, nor is there anything about the police having an idea of the identity of that suspect.

It?s not reported if there were any witnesses to an actual shooting.

Maybe it was just a kid with fire crackers.

EDIT: My bad. An 18 year old man and a 12 year old girl were shot and wounded.

 

[tinselwolverine]

How many is one too many? The ones that you own?

Maybe legal gun owners just need more common sense safety training - don?t draw your weapon ?unless you yourself or someone directly in your presence is facing an immediate clear and present danger. Don?t try to do the job of the police - we don?t need you to do that!?

Honestly, if a good guy with a gun gets shot by a cop for doing something stupid, fuck him. Darwin.

 

[byco42]

right, this is my fault... I'm the one who caused it, even though I duly submitted to background checks, and (while living in Illinois) got a FOID card, and keep my guns locked up and inaccessible in my closet.

So, if not you, who needs to surrender their firearms, since there already too many of them? And is the first step suspending firearm sales?

Perhaps the situation is that there are too many people who abuse firearms.

just like global warming is my fault because I drive to work, not because I'm forced to since we designed like more than 99% of our communities as massive subsidies for the auto & petroleum industries, and they are not walkable, or have any sort of reasonable public transit option.

There are definitely too many people abusing automobiles. "They" kill almost as many people as do "guns".

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 37,595
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.5​

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 39,707
Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.1​

Year: 2019. Source: NVSS. Link

 

[tinselwolverine]

So, if not you, who needs to surrender their firearms, since there already too many of them? And is the first step suspending firearm sales?

Perhaps the situation is that there are too many people who abuse firearms.



There are definitely too many people abusing automobiles. "They" kill almost as many people as do "guns".

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 37,595
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.5​

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 39,707
Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.1​

Year: 2019. Source: NVSS. Link

Okay.

Let?s figure out who those people are and get their guns.

I would say that if you?re a good guy with a gun and you end up getting shot dead by police because you were trying to play ?good guy with a gun,? you were arguably abusing your firearm.

But it?s okay now. We got your gun.

 

[Spartanmack]

in your 24 instances (over the course of 30 years), looks like a couple of the shootings were already over before someone killed the shooter. a couple others we're stopped by security guards or off duty policemen, not random wannabe hero civilians packing heat. in one they even admit it's not clear if the shooter was actually stopped before he killed himself, but they included it anyway and in another the guy had a CC permit, but subdued the shooter without using a gun.

"memepoliceman.com" should do a better job cobbling together evidence to refute facebook memes, if they're going to come with all that attitude.

and of course, the fact that some of the shootings happening in the first place beg the question of whether we truly are safer with more guns. that was the implied point I was making here in this thread, but perhaps the implication wasn't clear enough

so instances like the one cited where the angry guy getting turned away from the strip club end in shootings and killings rather than fist fights... but hey, at least smith and wesson made money on it...

I still think we're better off with fewer guns.

so do you think the unarmed folks in the strip club would have been better off if good guys weren't allowed to carry guns? That seems like a dumb argument. And like I said, this list is only people stopping mass shootings and isn't comprehensive - there are many, many more instances where armed citizens have prevented other types of violent crimes, protected their property and families and others.

If the implied point is about the number of guns, why not make it the stated point instead of the actual point you've stated many times - that an armed citizenry is more likely to turn into "OK Corral" type instances where a bunch of "good guys" end up shooting themselves and innocent people around them. Thats never been the case, these problems you foresee aren't on the rise, we're not trending toward that being the case. The facts show the opposite, gun crimes are inversely correlated with legal gun ownership.

Just to be clear, the point I'm making is there are way more instances where mass shootings and gun crimes have been thwarted by legally armed citizens, than there are instances of good guys getting shot by cops or shooting innocent civilians. We can't always count on off duty cops being around.

 

[tinselwolverine]

so do you think the unarmed folks in the strip club would have been better off if good guys weren't allowed to carry guns? That seems like a dumb argument.

If the implied point is about the number of guns, why not make it the stated point instead of the actual point you've stated many times - that an armed citizenry is more likely to turn into "OK Corral" type instances where a bunch of "good guys" end up shooting themselves and innocent people around them. Thats never been the case, these problems you foresee aren't on the rise, we're not trending toward that being the case. The facts show the opposite, gun crimes are inversely correlated with legal gun ownership.

Just to be clear, the point I'm making is there are way more instances where mass shootings and gun crimes have been thwarted by legally armed citizens, than there are instances of good guys getting shot by cops or shooting innocent civilians. We can't always count on off duty cops being around.

Wait?what?

That?s not my understanding at all of what happened at the OK corral; that the Earps and Doc Holiday shot themselves and a bunch of innocents got caught in the crossfire.

I love the story of Tombstone and the OK corral; so much that I literally took a side trip once to visit it - and it ain?t the easiest place to get to.

I don?t have a problem with good guys with guns - just don?t be a cowboy. Stand down until there?s imminent grave danger directly in front of you.

 

[byco42]

Wait?what?

That?s not my understanding at all of what happened at the OK corral; that the Earps and Doc Holiday shot themselves and a bunch of innocents got caught in the crossfire.

I love the story of Tombstone and the OK corral; so much that I literally took a side trip once to visit it - and it ain?t the easiest place to get to.

I don?t have a problem with good guys with guns - just don?t be a cowboy. Stand down until there?s imminent grave danger directly in front of you.

I, too, been to the O.K. Corral and the cemetery. There were no good guys in this gunfight.

Only Wyatt Earp was not struck by any bullets (excepting Ike Clanton and Billy Claiborne, who fled the scene). And the actual site of the gunfight was a vacant lot next to Fly's Photography Gallery. The accounts vary widely as to who fired first. Wyatt claims:

When I saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury draw their pistols, I drew my pistol. Billy Clanton leveled his pistol at me, but I did not aim at him. I knew that Frank McLaury had the reputation of being a good shot and a dangerous man, and I aimed at Frank McLaury. The first two shots were fired by Billy Clanton and myself, he shooting at me, and I shooting at Frank McLaury. I don't know which was fired first. We fired almost together.

I never drew my pistol or made a motion to shoot until after Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury drew their pistols.​

 

[tinselwolverine]

I, too, been to the O.K. Corral and the cemetery. There were no good guys in this gunfight.

Only Wyatt Earp was not struck by any bullets (excepting Ike Clanton and Billy Claiborne, who fled the scene). And the actual site of the gunfight was a vacant lot next to Fly's Photography Gallery. The accounts vary widely as to who fired first. Wyatt claims:

When I saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury draw their pistols, I drew my pistol. Billy Clanton leveled his pistol at me, but I did not aim at him. I knew that Frank McLaury had the reputation of being a good shot and a dangerous man, and I aimed at Frank McLaury. The first two shots were fired by Billy Clanton and myself, he shooting at me, and I shooting at Frank McLaury. I don't know which was fired first. We fired almost together.

I never drew my pistol or made a motion to shoot until after Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury drew their pistols.​

That is so cool.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uYE-qg4RBO0