I read this a few days ago and didn't reply because I want to remain civil. I was taught, "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all."
Thus far, I have handled you with kid gloves as I attempt to bring you to the truth. You have misinterpreted this gentlemanly behavior as a lack of knowledge and/or intelligence on my part, even to the point of intimating that I am so simple-minded as to believe anything I am told without investigating it for myself. You stated that you arrived at your conclusion due to sound thinking and reason, therefore I must be illogical and brainwashed. I assure you, according to those who measure such things, I have sufficient capacity to comprehend any issue you wish to undertake.
I told you very clearly at the outset that I (meaning-ME, MYSELF) have studied the Bible for 35+ years. This includes extra-Biblical sources and writings concerning the people, places, and times inherent to the scripture being studied. I (ME, MYSELF) understand how to study scripture within its context which you have shown an inability to accomplish on several occasions. I (ME, MYSELF) have studied scientific findings and find there is just as much true, actual data to support creation as there is evolution. I have provided ample evidence showing there is much more than coincidence involved in the stories I shared, yet you are so deep in denial you shall surely reach Cairo shortly.
You have belittled and employed passive-agressive statements which I have overlooked and not responded to in the quest to present truth rather than the incorrect emotional conclusions you have championed. You have introduced multiple issues at a time and when I address the one or two that show the least amount of understanding on your part, you then move on to something else.
I have allowed you to lead the conversation while I have done most of the heavy lifting and have also allowed you to continue with trifling questions (not that the issue is trifling, but the question itself is when the answer is apparent to anyone with a modicum of Biblical knowledge), instead of moving you on to more advanced issues such as epigenetics, time/space, archeological proofs, etc. You have not asked one question that I haven't thoroughly answered for others over the last 30 years. It is easy to ascertain one's level of knowledge by the questions they proffer and your level is not as you presented at the outset of this thread.
I will provide the answer I promised once I have returned home because I am a man of my word, but the best I can say is that this is the most vacuous post I have read in a long time.
As far as Mr. Loftus is concerned, I went to his blog, read the first paragraph and left laughing. Obviously, I didn't read enough to see if he claims to be a born-again Christian, but you do realize there are plenty of preachers who are not, right? I mean, you do have enough knowledge to understand that there are people who become preachers for the paycheck and do not become a Christian. Or are you one who believes that "going to church makes you a Christian"? Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to the museum makes you an artist.
You say you have "studied both sides of this coin" and have determined that atheism is correct. Well, I have news for you, you haven't "comprehended both sides of this coin".
Let's pretend for a moment that you're right and Loftus was never a Christian. But you say that some atheist, who was never very strong in his beliefs converting to Christianity is somehow going to sway me or any other atheist?
No, the problem with Christians is this. When you're given ACTUAL proof that you're wrong or somebody confronts you about your beliefs, you shrink away. You get really defensive and the only thing you can come up with is citing that you have read or watched about actual historical and/or archaeological evidence that doesn't actually exist.
You can study the bible as long as you want to, but no matter what your conclusion is, you can not tell me that the book is proof of God's existence. The only thing that it does is help you understand what the bible says.
If you were to read the bible, as you say you have, and have no knowledge of actual science, you would come away with the idea that the sun revolves around the Earth (and that this planet does not move) and that this planet is the center of the Universe. You'd also believe that the Earth is a flat circle. You'd probably believe that God created a firmament to keep the water in the sky (that blue part, duh, must be water) from falling on top of us. You might believe that this planet is only 4,000-10,000 years old. You'd be likely to believe that the moon is a light SOURCE just as the sun is. You might also think that bats are not mammals, but are in fact...birds.
If you want to talk about scientific proof. Look inside your bible. It's like reading a pre-school aged child's science report for a college class.
You, nor any other person in this thread have given any bit of actual scientific or archaeological proof that your bible and God can be considered anything more than a group of men from the 1st century writing down stories.
And no, I'm not going to move on to more advanced topics of discussion when you clearly can't answer simple questions that I've already addressed. You've failed to answer any of my concerns about atrocities carried out by God in the bible, slavery in the bible, the bible's treatment of women, odd death sentences, and most importantly, how all of the animals (at least two of each species of land and air) of the world fit onto Noah's ark.
You deflect the questions with statements that are designed to help you escape a topic or change the subject completely. Answer my concerns and questions and then we can move onto whatever you want to talk about. And while you're at it, show me some archaeological proof. I'd love to see it.
I dismiss your "answered prayers" because they are all situations that do not require a god. This is something you do not understand. Anything that is physically possible in this world is possible. Now, if you pray for it to rain frogs or that a river will turn into curative wine and it happens...that's an example of something that is impossible without a god. praying for money, love, help, and then getting it does not mean that you have a god up there looking out for you.
I'll make a prediction. You will completely ignore or dance around paragraph #4. OR You'll somehow dismiss everything I said with, "it's taken out of context" - a classic Christian move.
I have answered just about every single thing that you've brought up that requires a reply. You, however, do not do the same. I talk about sins of God in the bible and you start telling me about something completely different and drag it out for your entire reply.
My conclusion, as it always has been....There is NO proof that God exists, no matter what God you believe in. But, on the other hand, there is NO proof that a god does not exist. BUT, reading through your bible, with all the scientific mistakes and plot holes, it's easy to conclude that whoever wrote the bible had no guidance from God.
