Pistons Payroll

[biggunsbob]

Am I reading this right. Detroit?s payroll is dropping big time the next few years. This team will have a lot of different players maybe in the next few years.



https://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit_pistons/

 

[Mitchrapp]

That's because contracts run out. Probably no different than other teams. They will either resign or get new guys that cost way too much. Looking at that chart just reminds me that NBA players make way too much.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

So just a reminder, but the cap is currently 101 million, and isn't expected to jump up much. We won't have cap space until the summer of 2020, and it certainly won't be the ~30 million currently projected. That 2020 column is already ignoring Kennard and Brown's team options, which will almost certainly be picked up. Also, even without cap space, the team will have mid-level exceptions which they almost certainly will spend just to fill out the roster (we only have 10 people under contract for next year). So yes, we will have a payroll drop in the next couple years, but a smaller than expected portion of that money is truly gone (rather than replaced by same/similar contracts).

@Mitch, I'm not sure you can say they make too much. Their contracts are tied directly to league profits. The NBA is extremely profitable. They essentially are the product. Any fan who actually watches/attends games is saying that those players are worth X (whatever small amount they are paying to watch/attend). Each player doesn't need to be worth a million dollars to each fan. They just need to be worth one dollar to a million fans.

 

[Mitchrapp]

For 82 games they make too much. Imo. Not too long ago, 5 years maybe NHL and NBA were similar in popularity. More of a gap now but NBA is still less popular than MLB. Which is all less than 10% (going by favorite sport). Nothing is close to the NFL so imo they make too much. Especially with the somewhat pedestrian cap but only 15 players - A guy gets hurt and it just screws everything up. It's not like they have a 250LB guy hitting them in the head. I don't know just seems they make a bit much.

 

[biggunsbob]

Smith, Bullock , Calderon, Pachullia, and Ellenson are on the last year of their deals.
Can’t believe we signed Robinson III ? So far I doubt His team option will be picked up next year. We are still paying for Josh Smith ! wow one more year. So what do you think will happen ? Do the Pistons try and make a deal at the dead line if that is even possible?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Trade everyone. They're stuck in what I like to call "The wheel of hell." It's not working, start anew.

 

[sggatecl]

For 82 games they make too much. Imo. Not too long ago, 5 years maybe NHL and NBA were similar in popularity. More of a gap now but NBA is still less popular than MLB. Which is all less than 10% (going by favorite sport). Nothing is close to the NFL so imo they make too much. Especially with the somewhat pedestrian cap but only 15 players - A guy gets hurt and it just screws everything up. It's not like they have a 250LB guy hitting them in the head. I don't know just seems they make a bit much.

Have to consider the fact that compared to the sports you mentioned, rosters are tiny. Usually you're only playing 8-10 guys and 6-7 are getting the majority of the minutes. Very top heavy on every team. Rosters may technically be 15ish, but a handful of those guys won't see more than 100 minutes in a season.

Plus, the money has to go somewhere. I'd rather it be the players than the owners.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Have to consider the fact that compared to the sports you mentioned, rosters are tiny. Usually you're only playing 8-10 guys and 6-7 are getting the majority of the minutes. Very top heavy on every team. Rosters may technically be 15ish, but a handful of those guys won't see more than 100 minutes in a season.

Plus, the money has to go somewhere. I'd rather it be the players than the owners.

I suspect the owners get their share. With the rosters I'm sure it works out compared to other sports just seems like a lot. Thanks.

 

[sggatecl]

I suspect the owners get their share. With the rosters I'm sure it works out compared to other sports just seems like a lot. Thanks.

It certainly is a lot. If you're just straight up comparing contracts and athletic ability, they are definitely over paid.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

Trade everyone. They're stuck in what I like to call "The wheel of hell." It's not working, start anew.

I would like to see them move Kennard and another piece for an upgrade at the 2 and if they can't make some serious strides blow it up by trading Jackson and Drummond.

 

[dubbsco]

I would like to see them move Kennard and another piece for an upgrade at the 2 and if they can't make some serious strides blow it up by trading Jackson and Drummond.

It needs to be blown up. That's the only way this team will ever amount to something.

Drummond is part of a past breed of NBA center. You have to shoot and drive from all positions in the league. Drummond can't shoot, he can't create, he can't drive. All he does is rebound and put back dunks. And he sucks defensively.

Jackson can't shoot. You cannot have a PG in 2019 that is not a threat. He is much too inconsistent.

Griffin is a GOOD player. He's not great, and you cannot build a team around him. The strategy right now is give him the ball, and he bowls into the defender.

Stanley is done. Move him for whatever you can get. Same with Leuer.

Bullock provides a nice shot, but that's about it.

There's honestly very, very little that you can point to in a positive light. For the better teams in the NBA, where would these guys fit? Would any of them even start? The only guy I could argue would be Griffin, and he'd be the 3rd or 4th option for the better teams.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

The problem with "blowing it up" is that the team would need to move the contracts that are hamstringing them AND be bad enough to pick at the top of the draft. The former is almost impossible, and the latter is actually harder than it sounds. Who is going to take on Jackson's contract, even for nothing in return? What other team in the league would pay Drummond max money? Blake was literally being shopped for months, and the Pistons were the only team willing to give back anything useful in exchange.

But more, even if we gutted the roster we don't know if it would get high draft picks. The change to the draft lottery means even the worst team can pick as low as 5th (which is not far off from some of our latest picks). There are still a handful of teams currently dedicated to tanking (Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta).

I personally think this team needs to be blown up, that the front office needs to take a steady and long-term approach to rebuilding. But, I don't think that's possible right now. I think our best plan right now is to build in the margins (minor upgrade at the 2 spot, hunt for a salary dump PG). Don't take on any big contracts that run past the 20-21 season. At that point, let Drummond walk and any other vets making more than the MLE. If Blake is still good, dump him to a team looking for vet leadership (most teams will be able to handle an expiring contract). If he's not, force feed him the ball and let the team fall apart around him. Start over with a clean slate and focus on the draft.

That's not ideal, as it's still 2 years away, but it's probably realistic. This is the team the front office has built, and they are stuck with it.

 

[biggunsbob]

If we can’t have a good point guard who can shoot find a pass first point guard period. That right there would help this club out a lot in the short term until we can get to the 2021 salary dump.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

It needs to be blown up. That's the only way this team will ever amount to something.

Drummond is part of a past breed of NBA center. You have to shoot and drive from all positions in the league. Drummond can't shoot, he can't create, he can't drive. All he does is rebound and put back dunks. And he sucks defensively.

Jackson can't shoot. You cannot have a PG in 2019 that is not a threat. He is much too inconsistent.

Griffin is a GOOD player. He's not great, and you cannot build a team around him. The strategy right now is give him the ball, and he bowls into the defender.

Stanley is done. Move him for whatever you can get. Same with Leuer.

Bullock provides a nice shot, but that's about it.

There's honestly very, very little that you can point to in a positive light. For the better teams in the NBA, where would these guys fit? Would any of them even start? The only guy I could argue would be Griffin, and he'd be the 3rd or 4th option for the better teams.

Griffin would be the third best player on the Warriors much less any other team. You're being a little reactionary. Drummond's definitely a throwback and it's hard building around his inefficiencies as a result. He's got a somewhat tradable contract and that's why I can see moving him.

But this team would be in a much different place had they simply drafted Justice Winslow instead of Stanley and Donovan Mitchell instead of Kennard. And it's not like hindsight most people would've done that that day.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

The problem with "blowing it up" is that the team would need to move the contracts that are hamstringing them AND be bad enough to pick at the top of the draft. The former is almost impossible, and the latter is actually harder than it sounds. Who is going to take on Jackson's contract, even for nothing in return? What other team in the league would pay Drummond max money? Blake was literally being shopped for months, and the Pistons were the only team willing to give back anything useful in exchange.

But more, even if we gutted the roster we don't know if it would get high draft picks. The change to the draft lottery means even the worst team can pick as low as 5th (which is not far off from some of our latest picks). There are still a handful of teams currently dedicated to tanking (Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta).

I personally think this team needs to be blown up, that the front office needs to take a steady and long-term approach to rebuilding. But, I don't think that's possible right now. I think our best plan right now is to build in the margins (minor upgrade at the 2 spot, hunt for a salary dump PG). Don't take on any big contracts that run past the 20-21 season. At that point, let Drummond walk and any other vets making more than the MLE. If Blake is still good, dump him to a team looking for vet leadership (most teams will be able to handle an expiring contract). If he's not, force feed him the ball and let the team fall apart around him. Start over with a clean slate and focus on the draft.

That's not ideal, as it's still 2 years away, but it's probably realistic. This is the team the front office has built, and they are stuck with it.

That's the more likely option and yes they desperately need something out of the 2 spot. Cut bait with Kennard and Stanley while they still have some kind of value.

 

[biggunsbob]

Ellenson was a complete draft whiff. Damn I wish we had taken Brogdon, or Levert, or Siakiam, or Murray. Light class but still Svg’s scouting department flat out stunk.

 

[tomdalton22]

Griffin would be the third best player on the Warriors

KD
Steph
Boogie
Griffin

 

[dubbsco]

Griffin would be the third best player on the Warriors much less any other team. You're being a little reactionary. Drummond's definitely a throwback and it's hard building around his inefficiencies as a result. He's got a somewhat tradable contract and that's why I can see moving him.

But this team would be in a much different place had they simply drafted Justice Winslow instead of Stanley and Donovan Mitchell instead of Kennard. And it's not like hindsight most people would've done that that day.

This team has been in purgatory for a decade. That's not being reactionary, that is what they are.

The bottom line is that this team does nothing well, has basically 0 movable pieces and/or players that other teams would want to pick up a contract, and has horrible contracts. The owner seems to be absolutely clueless, they do not have a GM. The teams below them in the standings have young, exciting pieces to build around. This team has NO ONE fun/exciting to build around. They have aging players and zero youthful talent.

The Pistons are in one of the worst situations in the NBA. And I do not think it can be argued otherwise.

 

[biggunsbob]

It is sad but the drafts for the Pistons have not been great the last 20 years and when in recent years they pick a good player they always seem to do better elsewhere. Dinwiddie and Middleton come to mind.


2018 Bowen. Pick 42.

2017 Kennard. Pick 12.

2016 Ellenson. Pick 18.
2016 Gbinije. Pick 49.

2015 Johnson. Pick 8.
2015 Hilliard. Pick 38.

2014 Dinwiddie. Pick 38.

2013 Caldwell-Pope. Pick 8.
2013 Mitchell Pick 37.
2013 Silva Pick 56.

2012 Drummond Pick 9.
2012 Middleton Pick 39.
2012 English Pick 44.

2011 Knight Pick 8.
2011 Singler Pick 33.
2011 Macklin Pick #52.

2010 Monroe Pick # 7.
2010 T. White Pick # 35.

2009 Daye Pick #15.
2009 Summers Pick # 35.
2009 Jerebko Pick # 39.

2008 jd White Pick #29
2008 Washington Pick # 59.

2007 Stuckey Pick # 15.
2007 Affalo Pick # 27.
2007 Mejia Pick # 57.

2006 Blalock Pick # 60.

2005 Maxiell Pick #26.
2005 Johnson Pick # 56.
2005 Acker Pick #60.

2004 Paulding #54.


2003 Milicic # 2.
2003 Delfino #25.
2003 Glyniadakis # 58.

2002 Prince #23.

2001 R. White Pick # 9.
2001 Okur Pick #37.

2000 Cleaves Pick # 14.
2000 Cardinal Pick #44.

1999 Levett Pick # 54.

1998 Wells Pick # 11.
1998 Young Pick # 40

1997 Pollard Pick # 19.
1997 O’Bannon Pick 31.

1996 Williams Pick #26.

1995 Ratliff Pick # 18.
1995 Childress Pick #19.
1995 Roe Pick Pick #30.
1995 Reid Pick Pick #58.

1994 Hill Pick #3.
1994 Crudup Pick #48.

1993 Hunter Pick #10.
1993 Houston Pick #11.

1992 MacLean Pick #19.

1991 Overton Pick 30.

1990 Blanks #26.

1989 Battle #26.

1988 Dembo #30
1988 Williams 48.
1988 Johnson #72.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Pistons_draft_history

 

[tomdalton22]

It is sad but the drafts for the Pistons have not been great the last 20 years and when in recent years they pick a good player they always seem to do better elsewhere. Dinwiddie and Middleton come to mind.


2018 Bowen. Pick 42.

2017 Kennard. Pick 12.

2016 Ellenson. Pick 18.
2016 Gbinije. Pick 49.

2015 Johnson. Pick 8.
2015 Hilliard. Pick 38.

2014 Dinwiddie. Pick 38.

2013 Caldwell-Pope. Pick 8.
2013 Mitchell Pick 37.
2013 Silva Pick 56.

2012 Drummond Pick 9.
2012 Middleton Pick 39.
2012 English Pick 44.

2011 Knight Pick 8.
2011 Singler Pick 33.
2011 Macklin Pick #52.

2010 Monroe Pick # 7.
2010 T. White Pick # 35.

2009 Daye Pick #15.
2009 Summers Pick # 35.
2009 Jerebko Pick # 39.

2008 jd White Pick #29
2008 Washington Pick # 59.

2007 Stuckey Pick # 15.
2007 Affalo Pick # 27.
2007 Mejia Pick # 57.

2006 Blalock Pick # 60.

2005 Maxiell Pick #26.
2005 Johnson Pick # 56.
2005 Acker Pick #60.

2004 Paulding #54.


2003 Milicic # 2.
2003 Delfino #25.
2003 Glyniadakis # 58.

2002 Prince #23.

2001 R. White Pick # 9.
2001 Okur Pick #37.

2000 Cleaves Pick # 14.
2000 Cardinal Pick #44.

1999 Levett Pick # 54.

1998 Wells Pick # 11.
1998 Young Pick # 40

1997 Pollard Pick # 19.
1997 O?Bannon Pick 31.

1996 Williams Pick #26.

1995 Ratliff Pick # 18.
1995 Childress Pick #19.
1995 Roe Pick Pick #30.
1995 Reid Pick Pick #58.

1994 Hill Pick #3.
1994 Crudup Pick #48.

1993 Hunter Pick #10.
1993 Houston Pick #11.

1992 MacLean Pick #19.

1991 Overton Pick 30.

1990 Blanks #26.

1989 Battle #26.

1988 Dembo #30
1988 Williams 48.
1988 Johnson #72.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Pistons_draft_history

The problem is they have been mediocre most years so they don't get a very high pick. They haven't had a top 5 pick since Darko and only 4 picks in the top 10 (7,8,8,9) since 2004