Preseason Game 4: Bills @ Lions Thread

[LKP]

54 more carries than last year would put Detroit in the top 10 in rushing attempts. 3.125 per game

150 more carries. 9.3 per game puts them at number 1 overall. More than Seattle and Houston

We are not going to run the ball that much. We are a good passing team. Stafford gets 550 attempts minimum but realistically 600 attempts min.

Houston had 485 pass attempts and Seattle 454 (32nd). No way Stafford ever goes that low in attempts. Never happening

 

[dubbsco]

I say that tongue in cheek. People love the white running back.

Kidding aside, if he earns his spot on the practice field and if the other guys cannot get it done, fine. Give him a shot. But otherwise, having a good preseason does not warrant him to getting time in real game situations. Defenses are all vanilla, he's going up against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and he's playing behind the heir apparent and a guy that the coaching staff loves (but I'm not that enamored with him).

 

[zyxt9]

http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXteamsXXnyg...ing_and_receiving&t=all_rushing_and_receiving

One of the best RB by committee I have seen.Granted this is 3 guys, not 4...but I'm still of the opinion Riddick or Bell can be replaced and if Nyquil proves himself then one of those two can be traded.

 

[LKP]

Riddick is Abdullah depth and a receiving threat on his own.

Abdullah and Zenner are Bell depth. Nobody goes anywhere.

 

[dubbsco]

You have your main two, that's the way the league is now. 3rd and 4th guys are used in rare spots if someone goes down, or the other two are just wildly ineffective.

Hopefully a team falls in love with Zenner and you can get a pick out of him later.

 

[LKP]

You keep Zenner and Bell's contract is up after 2016 season. Got your man for 2017 or in case of injury.

 

[zyxt9]

Actually, that was 4 RBs, missed Bradshaw as #4 back. That really was a well balanced group, and Manning still threw over 500 times. This is what I would love to see the Lions do this year.

 

[brewer229]

There just isn't 10 more touches a game available.

Some of the teams with the best RBs, here are their total touches by running back per game average:

Cowboys: 34
Seattle: 29
Steelers:29

Lions had 29. As you can see we are right along lines with some of the teams that give their RBs the most touchs. There just isn't 10 more to give.

How are you going to break up 30 touches over 4 players?

Only Demarco Murry, Leveon Bell, Matt Forte. and LeSean McCoy averaged over 20 touches and played all 16. Foster & Ellington averaged over 20 per game played, but only played in 13.

You want 5'9" abdullah to get 20? Bell will get around 13-15. AA will get around 12, Riddick will get around 4. that leaves 0-1 carry available for the #4 guy.

He will need to pass Riddick on the practice field to get any time.

 

[cheeno]

SPARQ also puts Golden Tate on level with guys like Kris Durham and well behind Ricardo Lockette. Haven't looked into SPARQ much, mostly because everything is secret, but if you advertise your hits anything could sound like it is a good indicator.

Martin Mayhew thought that Kris Durham was on Golden Tate's level for about 2 years.

 

[tonyballs]

ZY, I want you to go pick any 4 or 5 teams stats and look up the RB distribution. The main guy gets 200 some touches, next guy gets 80-100, and after that it is a MASSIVE drop-off to the guys in 3rd and 4th on the depth chart. I get you are including both, but I would also figure that the 3rd and 4th RBs aren't even getting in the game 5-10 times a game.

You destroy continuity and growth of the main two guys with some need to make sure everyone is happy and getting carries.

And I'll go ahead and be that guy. Zenner's getting a lot of love because he's a white dude. People are always enamored with the white running back, it's like the Aurera Borelias.

Race???! Oh shit!!! Who cares?! Buy a shovel and dig!!! Lol

 

[tonyballs]

I say that tongue in cheek. People love the white running back.

Kidding aside, if he earns his spot on the practice field and if the other guys cannot get it done, fine. Give him a shot. But otherwise, having a good preseason does not warrant him to getting time in real game situations. Defenses are all vanilla, he's going up against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and he's playing behind the heir apparent and a guy that the coaching staff loves (but I'm not that enamored with him).

And there's the shovel...lol

 

[tonyballs]

There just isn't 10 more touches a game available.

Some of the teams with the best RBs, here are their total touches by running back per game average:

Cowboys: 34
Seattle: 29
Steelers:29

Lions had 29. As you can see we are right along lines with some of the teams that give their RBs the most touchs. There just isn't 10 more to give.

How are you going to break up 30 touches over 4 players?

Only Demarco Murry, Leveon Bell, Matt Forte. and LeSean McCoy averaged over 20 touches and played all 16. Foster & Ellington averaged over 20 per game played, but only played in 13.

You want 5'9" abdullah to get 20? Bell will get around 13-15. AA will get around 12, Riddick will get around 4. that leaves 0-1 carry available for the #4 guy.

He will need to pass Riddick on the practice field to get any time.

100% agree. Scary? But i'm still rootin for the Zman

 

[zyxt9]

Ok, change my earlier post on the numbers from touches to offensive, non-ST, plays.

You guys are trying to imply he never sees the field. You don't stash a guy on the bench like that. He obviously won't have the same number of plays as the others in week 1, but he will play in the game. Coaches want to know if he can have success in games, he will play...and you guys will hate it and route against him. You claim you won't, but your posts demonstrate that when he is going into the huddle you will be annoyed and think something like, "oh great, here comes a wasted play" and when the D stops him you will say, "I knew he would suck...fucking stupid Lions never do anything right" and can't wait to come on here and throw it in people's faces. That is your mindset, and I'm calling you put on it now. A guy who performs well in preseason deserves a chance, regardless of whether that chance ends up with positive or negative results.

 

[elrod817]

What in the wide world of sports is going on in here?

z, I think you need a Snickers or something...I don't want to put words in my fellows posters fingers (which is what one says before he does just that), but I don't think anyone's rooting against Zenner. When they say they don't want him to see the field (much) it's not with malice, but with logic.

If your 4th sting running back is seeing playing time it typically means that one or more of the other three are injured or ineffective. If your top guys are in rhythm, performing well you don't pull them just to see what this other guy has. Zenner will have the opportunity to develop through practice, on the scout team, and if the situation presents itself during live action. To say these guys "hate" the idea of Zenner playing would be akin to us saying you root against Bell, Abdullah, and Riddick because you so badly desire to see Zenner play. I'm fairly confident that you would not root against those three, just like the posters here would not root against Zenner in live action. We're Lions fans man!

I have no qualms with Zenner seeing no action this year, being a hidden gem on the bench, all while saving some tread on those tires. That would mean Bell, Abdullah, and Riddick are excelling. I would hate to see Zenner get a few carries just to see what he has and suffer an injury. But if/when he gets in the game every poster will be bleeding Honolulu Blue and Silver for the guy hoping he busts a long one.

 

[brewer229]

What elrod said is true.

No one is routing against the kid, but I'm not a fan of taking away carries from guys just to give them to another guy to see. That is called practice. A good preseason guarantees you nothing in the regular season. TJ Jones played well, he could very well not make the team.

zyx...What do you see in Zenner that makes you think him getting a few caries over Bell and AA gives us a better chance to win?

Do you think he might have better vision? Think he is faster? Think he is a stronger runner? Better agility? There must be something besides..well I just like the guy.

 

[dubbsco]

Exactly. The more Zenner sees in the regular season, the more it will take away from Abdullah growing. If he proves himself in practice and the other two suck, then you can go ahead and start to give him an opportunity.

But otherwise, he'll be a nice player for the others to go up against in practice and on the scout team. And down the line, if they can turn him into a trade for a draft pick, then it'll be worthwhile.

 

[zyxt9]

The kid already has practiced hard enough to get some reps vs 1s in PS3. Ever think he gas already outperformed Riddick? AA did and should be the starter. The Lions RBs have been midling along for years, they have a potential star in AA. I would rather see him start over Bell and/or Riddick. It is possible that Zenner is better than Bell and Riddick as well, but isn't being given a fair shake by some on here due to his Undrafted status.

I just want the best guys on the field and am always open to the possibility that it could be someone unexpected. It isn't like I'm saying Salas should start over CJ...Lions RBs haven't been great since...Barry...so IMO a guy who is Undradted but extremely talented has a chance to actually be highe on depth chart than #4. Only way to know he is that good is playing time. The potential for screw ups is there because he is a rookie, but potential he I better is also there. We don't gt to watch practice, so none of us know how that has been going other than he dis well enough to earn practice time with the 1s a few weeks ago. Haven't heard much since, but he did get reps vs 1s in Jax...and was better than the others in production. Yea that is vs vanilla defense and a Jax vanilla at that...but it isn't like the others did same vs tgat Jax vanilla D.

Point is, coaches have appreciated his production, he will more likely than not be on the field playing...my guess at least 5 snaps but might be more. I see his snaps Week 1 coming more out of what Bell and Riddick would gave gotten due to Bell still coming off injury and Riddick moving down depth chart. It is more like Lions have RBs 3a and 3b than 3 and 4, IMO, with option to put in Zenner for Bell and Riddick for AA depending on play call/game situation, which is not the same as a true #3 and #4 RB.

The injury thing is a moot point. Any back could be injured on any given play. You don't keep a guy on the bench to prevent injury unkess guy is coming back from injury and you want to limit hua exposure until he is 100% and gotten himself back in full game shape. This likely will mean a few less plays for Bell which should mean a few more for Zenner since it should be Zenner and nit Rddick who is Bell's backup. However, if game situation is 3rd down I would expect Riddick to be the back since he is a better pass blocker and traditionally been a solid 3rd down back, but 3rd and 1 might be situation where Zenner is put in.

That's my OPINION. You guys can say you hope it doesn't happen. We will find out on Sunday...well, you guys will have the chance...i will be at a funeral, just advances notice in case Zennee doesn't play or screws up and anyone is wondering why I'm not on here. If those things happen, I still say the kid deserves to play regardless, so that we know if he is a bust or can hang. I want to kno yhat W1, not W8 due to injuries forcing him into bigger role. If he screws up or fails, then they can bring Winn back to the role he had last year, but i want hat known early on, not when it is desperation time.

 

[dubbsco]

3rd and 1 is where you put Bell in. That's what his main function will be with this team when Abdullah establishes himself and takes most of the carries away from everyone else. There's been this thought that every team has two running backs that split time equally, but that's really not the case when you look at the team distribution. One running back is still getting most of the carries, and the 2nd guy gets 70-100.

There is not enough carries to go between the 3rd and 4th. Blowout situations, injuries, that's when you'll see Zenner.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

What in the wide world of sports is going on in here?

z, I think you need a Snickers or something...I don't want to put words in my fellows posters fingers (which is what one says before he does just that), but I don't think anyone's rooting against Zenner. When they say they don't want him to see the field (much) it's not with malice, but with logic.

If your 4th sting running back is seeing playing time it typically means that one or more of the other three are injured or ineffective. If your top guys are in rhythm, performing well you don't pull them just to see what this other guy has. Zenner will have the opportunity to develop through practice, on the scout team, and if the situation presents itself during live action. To say these guys "hate" the idea of Zenner playing would be akin to us saying you root against Bell, Abdullah, and Riddick because you so badly desire to see Zenner play. I'm fairly confident that you would not root against those three, just like the posters here would not root against Zenner in live action. We're Lions fans man!

I have no qualms with Zenner seeing no action this year, being a hidden gem on the bench, all while saving some tread on those tires. That would mean Bell, Abdullah, and Riddick are excelling. I would hate to see Zenner get a few carries just to see what he has and suffer an injury. But if/when he gets in the game every poster will be bleeding Honolulu Blue and Silver for the guy hoping he busts a long one.

Very well said.

I'm rooting for Zenner as well.....I think we all are. But we are rooting for him to MAKE THE TEAM.....not become the #1 at this point. I think it's clear he proved he belongs at this level. The next step for ZZ, as Elrod mentioned, is to improve through practice and scout team reps.....and climb his way up the depth chart.

It's the NFL......if he proves to the coaches he belongs on the field in the regular season.....he'll be there. And we'll all (this board) be rooting for him.

 

[zyxt9]

Just remembered the Lions game is next Sunday, so I should be able to watch it. Feels like it should be tomorrow since I watched UM Thu night and didn't pay much attention to PS4, nit to mention in chomping at the bit for W1...got a week ahead of myself. Season starts really late this year because of later than usual Labor Day.