Religion sucks

[Michchamp]

too deep for you to grasp? unwilling or incapable of thinking it through? science forbid one actually put blame on the human condition that is a result of biological and Darwinist impulses, far easier to place blame solely on religion for every killing ever experienced so you can feel better about yourself...because that is what this entire thread is about, isn't it? make champ feel better about himself.

:hmm: Just not sure where you are going with this.

I think we've been over it before; religion is usually just a convenient justification for violence that is often rooted in more base human desires, like greed. But it is a very good justification... for the stupid, what better way to overcome your natural reluctance to kill and become a monster than to be commanded to do so by a higher power?

killing is not in accordance with the tenets of Christianity or Judaism... the pagan Viking religions were more consistent and less hypocritical, but they became Christian. And of course, for atheists, there's nothing hypocritical about this, because atheism is not a religion, has no moral code or tenets, and is defined only by a lack of belief in a deity or deities. That's really where criticism of religion is justified here: Christianity purports to be a religion based on the teachings of Christ. When Christians kill in the name of their religion (and they've been doing so for a long time) it exposes the hypocrisy in their claim to moral authority.

no atheist ever claimed any divine inspiration or moral code linked to atheism...

But this goes beyond the scope of the thread. See post #10.

let's all have a pity party for champ because he was once lied to about Santa and he never was able to recover from that experience.

We can have a separate thread about that, I think. This thread is just about how religion sucks.

 

[Michchamp]

true or false, the first societies fought and killed in order to protect their regional hunting and gathering areas? I'm not saying that was the sole reason they fought, but different societies came across one another and fought over the territorial food resources.

No one knows what they did because writing had not been invented yet.

If they did kill eachother and fight primitive small scale wars, I don't see how that is Darwin's fault. Man is an animal, and animals fight.

Some of us (like me) aspire to more than that. Others (like you) do not.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Their religion is science fiction, not a fairy tale...

This may be the most amusing thing you've ever posted.

It is extremely important, logically, to differentiate between Cinderella and Spock.

 

[zyxt9]

Some of us (like me) aspire to more than that. Others (like you) do not.

Wow, that is so "morally" superior of you. You don't aspire to be anything more than a world class antagonist against religion...how in the world does that make you morally better?
You crave the internet fights like this, and you knew when you created this thread what would happen in it.

Of course YOU will only point your finger at the people criticizing you, calling them less moral, less human, more animal than you...which completely discredits your attempts to come off as having higher morals or being a better human in regards to this thread.

No one knows what they did because writing had not been invented yet.

If they did kill eachother and fight primitive small scale wars, I don't see how that is Darwin's fault. Man is an animal, and animals fight.

Where did I say it was Darwin's fault? I said Darwinism, you know...the whole Survival of the Fittest concept that is a part of evolution.

One can submit a decent hypothesis that people in the past killed over food, or more precisely the lack thereof or the territorial areas that contained food resources. They likely killed over many other things as well, including religion, lust and sexual conquest, or just plain not liking each other. It is far easier to support that food resources resulted in killings throughout human history than to discredit the idea, so while absolute proof may not be available due to lack of written word, it really is not a concept that requires such evidence to be a valid hypothesis even if it lacks enough specific evidence to be a true theory by the Scientific Method.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hitler was not an atheist

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

"And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."

"Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

He may not have been a strict atheist, but he was skeptical of all religious beliefs. According to the Goebbels Diaries, Hitler hated Christianity. It appears he was more of an opportunist nonbeliever who tailored his message to his audiences perceived sensibilities.

Mao, Stalin, and Pot were atheists, this has been documented. But is it the reason they committed these atrocities? or are you just using guilt by association?

Why not in the name of communism? or because they were power-hungry dicks? or because they were all men?

This is not guilt by association. When i said they used their doctrine to kill i was referring to communism for Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot and fascism for Hitler. All of them were atheists or "non religious" in Hitlers case who killed millions of people - some, and in some cases, most were killed because of their religious beliefs or associations. Clearly, power is what drives most if not all of these genocidal maniacs. Perversion of religion doesn't hold a monopoly on genocide.

I will disagree with this statement as a whole...and in a slight defense of religion, I believe that power corrupts people, not beliefs. Religious/political beliefs may initiate these thoughts or plans, but the will to power, dominance, and control is the true motivating factor in continuing these atrocities. People will use whatever excuse they can to assert authority.

I think you're misunderstanding my point because I think we pretty much agree on this. Clearly, power corrupts men and men do evil unspeakable things with and for it. They all use some doctrine to justify it - sometimes religious but often secular. Blaming genocide on religion or saying religion is bad because someone falsely invokes it as justification for genocide is an unjust indictment of religion.

 

[zyxt9]

This may be the most amusing thing you've ever posted.

It is extremely important, logically, to differentiate between Cinderella and Spock.

feel free to use it in a script sometime

 

[grandy]

I think you're misunderstanding my point because I think we pretty much agree on this. Clearly, power corrupts men and men do evil unspeakable things with and for it. They all use some doctrine to justify it - sometimes religious but often secular. Blaming genocide on religion or saying religion is bad because someone falsely invokes it as justification for genocide is an unjust indictment of religion.

I had a feeling, I just wasn't sure based on your original post.

As for Hitler, I haven't seen anything definitively atheist or theist for him. With both his writings in Mein Kempf and his admiration for Martin Luther, it sounds like he was a deist who was bat shit insane.

 

[Thumb]

1. I'm not religious.
2. Their religion is science fiction, not a fairy tale...so you invalidate your own argument.
3. My beliefs are grounded more in scientific fact, which are yet to prove nor disprove the existence of Intelligent Design. You choose not to believe, whereas I do. Cry all you want, you will never be able to disprove the existence of Intelligent Design through science, for the more formulas, constants, and theories science uncovers, the more it points to Intelligent Design for me. You will never win that battle, but have fun trying to convince yourself that you can.

Why is it so many atheists come across as people who need a shrink to help them deal with their childhood trauma from the time they found out mom and dad lied about Santa?

You're splitting hairs. In the big picture there is no difference between science fiction and a guy(s) who walks on water, raise the dead, part the Red Sea, live 1000 years, build giant boats with every animal including predatory species on board.......so yeah, my argument is plenty valid.

The only thing that makes the Abrahamic religions less of a fairy tale than any other fiction is people swear it really happened.

I could do the same about Star Wars and not be much different in a neutral persons eyes.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Mao is estimated to have killed at least 49mm people (high end estimate is 79mm)
Hitler (more tolerant of Christianity, but still an atheist) - killed 12mm people, many because of their religion.
Stalin - estimated to have killed 10mm some say as high as 60mm and that he killed more Jews than Hitler.
Khmer Rouge slaughtered 5mm of their own people as recently as the 1970s

It can be difficult to relate...we're probably all over 1500 mm.

 

[Spartanmack]

You're splitting hairs. In the big picture there is no difference between science fiction and a guy(s) who walks on water, raise the dead, part the Red Sea, live 1000 years, build giant boats with every animal including predatory species on board.......so yeah, my argument is plenty valid.

The only thing that makes the Abrahamic religions less of a fairy tale than any other fiction is people swear it really happened.

I could do the same about Star Wars and not be much different in a neutral persons eyes.

So you practice Jediism? Heretic.

 

[Thumb]

It can be difficult to relate...we're probably all over 1500 mm.

I lol'd

 

[Thumb]

So you practice Jediism? Heretic.

Soloism.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't believe it's cannon, but a Jediism interpretation I like to make is that Midi-chlorians don't create the Force or communicate with their hosts or anything like that, they're simply microorganisms that thrive in Force-rich environments. Correlation, not causation.

 

[Spartanmack]

It can be difficult to relate...we're probably all over 1500 mm.

I don't believe it's cannon, but a Jediism interpretation I like to make is that Midi-chlorians don't create the Force or communicate with their hosts or anything like that, they're simply microorganisms that thrive in Force-rich environments. Correlation, not causation.

I'm not even a little bit surprised by either of these posts. Thank you wookieepedia for telling me wtf a midi-chlorian is. And thank you google for letting me know there is such a thing as wookieepedia.

 

[jwlcosu]

I'm not even a little bit surprised by either of these posts. Thank you wookieepedia for telling me wtf a midi-chlorian is. And thank you google for letting me know there is such a thing as wookieepedia.

When I read your post I thought Wookiepedia was like the way you say Wisco. So I Googled it and learned it's something that's kind of real. WTFO?

 

[Michchamp]

Religion CONTINUES to suck.

 

[Sbee]

this was on Facebook today, I assume this is your car

 

[tigermud]

Well isn't that special