RIP lady who alec baldwin shot

[Michchamp]

Link.

There are comments floating around on the web that much of the staff on this film already walked off once because of safety issues, and had a lot of labor conflict with the studio.

Hopefully the deceased crew member's estate sues the shit out of them.

 

[biggunsbob]

So does Alec do any Jail time ?

 

[Mitchrapp]

So does Alec do any Jail time ?

Why would he? He didn't fix the gun - that's on the studio. But he has to think about that the rest of his life feel bad for him and rest in peace lady.

 

[tinselwolverine]

So does Alec do any Jail time ?

Melania would be bummed.

She loves his impersonation of the Donald.

 

[biggunsbob]

I was just asking. I have read zip about it. Was he doing a scene or fooling around with a prop gun?

 

[zyxt9]

From info I just read he was handed the prop gun by the armorer during a rehearsal and was told during that exchange the weapon was a "cold gun" meaning it was unloaded.

I have issue with this on 2 fronts. During a rehearsal, any time I have been around film and theater, rehearsals used dummy guns that did not even have an actual barrel and performers would say "bang" as they pull on the fake trigger. Now I am admittedly a very noticed, minimally knowledged individual, so I defer to Tinsel on this as he likely has much more in depth background on this front. It is very possible that on films like this they do not have that as their standard rehearsal environment.

My second issue is that anytime someone hands another person a weapon and declares it is unloaded, one is trained to NEVER take that as a guarantee and the gun should be inspected by the person receiving the gun to verify that is the case.

I'm unaware of the degree to which Alec is trained in proper gun handling, but this is standard training in every environment I have ever been in. One has to check every aspect of that gun, the chamber(s) and the mags. As this appears probable to have been a shotgun, or revolver as this is a Western film, Alec should easily have been able to check it. That is on him, and I'm sure he is racked with a guilty conscience for not checking and verifying it was truly a "cold gun". And yes, the armored should similarly inspected it immediately before handing it over. That is just proper firearm training and etiquette.

 

[zyxt9]

I wonder if Hollywood will move toward all gunfire being done with CGI from now on and only using the plastic prop guns. One person already has commented surprise in use of blanks instead of simulations.

Alec is an outspoken critic of guns, and I cannot help but wonder if that lead him to not learning proper gun safety. Even if handed a weapon with blanks, that should not qualify as a "cold gun". A true "cold gun" should be compmety empty.

I wonder if they will be able to find a partial fingerprint on the casing.

Several people had quit the film hours before due to lack of safety. Alec being a co-producer may end up with additional charges involving the overall environment being a negative one.

 

[Michchamp]

I wonder if Hollywood will move toward all gunfire being done with CGI from now on and only using the plastic prop guns. One person already has commented surprise in use of blanks instead of simulations.

Alec is an outspoken critic of guns, and I cannot help but wonder if that lead him to not learning proper gun safety. Even if handed a weapon with blanks, that should not qualify as a "cold gun". A true "cold gun" should be compmety empty.

I wonder if they will be able to find a partial fingerprint on the casing.

Several people had quit the film hours before due to lack of safety. Alec being a co-producer may end up with additional charges involving the overall environment being a negative one.

I don't mean to interrupt your speculating on causes that validate all your political opinions, but apparently the "armorer" for the film was a 24-year-old woman (link) who was only in that role because the regular union crew walked off the set after repeated labor disputes:

Unionized workers had walked off the set hours before the fatal shooting, after they complained about long hours, shoddy conditions and another safety incident days earlier involving 'two misfires' of a prop weapon.

A yet-unnamed prop master who oversaw the gun used in the fatal shooting was a non-union worker who was 'just brought in' to replace the workers who left over safety concerns, a source involved in the movie told the New York Post.

It's unclear whether Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer, had recently joined the production, or was one of the crew members who stayed behind after the walk-off.
​

Pay your professionals, and don't skirt safety rules, and people won't die on the job.

So I don't know where you want to apportion blame here. Maybe you can still find some way to blame this on "cancel culture" or gun control?

 

[byco42]

I?ll never assess blame, because I was not there. Let the facts tell the story, if they can ever be accurately accounted.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I guess it?s too bad Helyna didn?t join the walk off herself.

 

[Michchamp]

I guess it?s too bad Helyna didn?t join the walk off herself.

seems like it would've been prudent in this case.

knowing human nature in general, and how things work in America in particular, I'm surprised more people don't die more often on movie sets, but I suppose that's why the film trade unions have the strength they do, and have endured.

 

[byco42]

More details from LA Times.

Link

 

[byco42]

Halyna Hutchins?s husband is Latham & Watkins attorney involved in Durham indictment (Clinton attorney Michael Sussmann is a client).

Link

Other ?more reputable? sources are also reporting this.

Also: ?However, multiple sources connected to the set of Rust told TMZ that the same Colt pistol that ?went off? (quotation marks mine) in Baldwin?s hands had been used recreationally by crew members for ?target practice.?

The sources claim that some crew members would go off for target practice using real bullets, and some believe a live round from those practice sessions found its way onto the set.?

Was this a prop gun, or an actual gun? And a revolver is simple to check for live rounds. You can see them in the cylinder by opening it. This whole incident is hinky, based on the information that keeps trickling out.

 

[Michchamp]

Halyna Hutchins?s husband is Latham & Watkins attorney involved in Durham indictment (Clinton attorney Michael Sussmann is a client).

Link

Other ?more reputable? sources are also reporting this.

Also: ?However, multiple sources connected to the set of Rust told TMZ that the same Colt pistol that ?went off? (quotation marks mine) in Baldwin?s hands had been used recreationally by crew members for ?target practice.?

The sources claim that some crew members would go off for target practice using real bullets, and some believe a live round from those practice sessions found its way onto the set.?

Was this a prop gun, or an actual gun? And a revolver is simple to check for live rounds. You can see them in the cylinder by opening it. This whole incident is hinky, based on the information that keeps trickling out.

I don't see anything there; Latham and Watkins is a HUGE law firm, so you could probably "tie" - simply by virtue of association - every single attorney there to some sort of controversial legal issue.

He's only an associate/worker bee. If he was a partner then he'd be making decisions on who to represent and how. He's just doing legal grunt work.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don't see anything there; Latham and Watkins is a HUGE law firm, so you could probably "tie" - simply by virtue of association - every single attorney there to some sort of controversial legal issue.

He's only an associate/worker bee. If he was a partner then he'd be making decisions on who to represent and how. He's just doing legal grunt work.

Well, with his hot wife out of the way, maybe he?ll finally buckle down and make something of himself.

 

[Michchamp]

Well, with his hot wife out of the way, maybe he?ll finally buckle down and make something of himself.

I saw a comment somewhere they just had a kid, so he'll have to shoulder some more of the child-rearing by himself. Not sure how long he's been practicing, but I saw she's my age. assuming he's about that age, and maybe around a 10th -15th year associate at a big firm like L&W he's probably pulling in $300K in base salary if not more... easily enough to hire a nanny.

It's unusual to remain an associate that long though... they don't want to keep giving you raises every year indefinitely, as a mere worker bee, when law schools are cranking out cheaper workers bees every yeae.

either you make REAL partner (which is... iffy... see below), or they give you "Participation trophy" Partner status, where you get the title and all the negatives of being a partner without actually getting a partner's share of the firm's profits, or you move to an "of counsel" role, with a high base salary, but less bonus money, and no merit raises... and that's all figured out usually by your 10th year of practice.

You make partner at a place like that one of three ways: 1) you have a near-encyclopedic knowledge of some aspect of law so that companies (or ultra wealthy individuals) have to hire you by default because few others can do what you do; 2) you have powerful & connected parents or relatives that will hire the law firm solely because you're there; or 3) you have the political connections that can make problems disappear without actually going to court, so large corporations and the ultra wealthy will gladly pay you a six figure sum to send a couple emails and make some calls.

If you're making it via option #1, you have no life or time for anything else, beyond maintaining that encyclopedic knowledge and billing hours.

 

[Michchamp]

saw another comment about this that the film had multiple producers, with people who claimed to be "in the know" saying in their experience that means the management structure was chaotic, and there was no real producer.

that explains a lot... and makes sense. that's no way to operate anything that requires someone have decision making authority

 

[byco42]

Filmmaking is like the military. A chain of command and a hierarchy. And buffers. Lots of buffers. Communication is very need-to-know and linear. Anything but egalitarian and horizontal. The exact opposite. Even the termonology is similar. People have direct reports and they should not go outside of channels.

And this is in relation to the films I used to produce and direct, which were not even close to the scale of a modest feature.

EDIT: And the communication channels flow in two directions. Necessary to minimize confusion and conflict.

 

[Michchamp]

Filmmaking is like the military. A chain of command and a hierarchy. And buffers. Lots of buffers. Communication is very need-to-know and linear. Anything but egalitarian and horizontal. The exact opposite. Even the termonology is similar. People have direct reports and they should not go outside of channels.

And this is in relation to the films I used to produce and direct, which were not even close to the scale of a modest feature.

EDIT: And the communication channels flow in two directions. Necessary to minimize confusion and conflict.

I saw some related comments claiming it was BS they're focusing the coverage on the armorer and other working stiffs in the crew, when all the liability should rest with anyone who had the title of "producer" whether they were actually producing or not.

it also seems insane to me that they would ever use real firearms - or keep live ammunition - in tv/film or anywhere near the set. I can't imagine their insurance coverage is still valid with that... or that they talked to an attorney about any of this. idiots.

 

[tomdalton22]

Filmmaking is like the military. A chain of command and a hierarchy. And buffers. Lots of buffers. Communication is very need-to-know and linear. Anything but egalitarian and horizontal. The exact opposite. Even the termonology is similar. People have direct reports and they should not go outside of channels.

And this is in relation to the films I used to produce and direct, which were not even close to the scale of a modest feature.

EDIT: And the communication channels flow in two directions. Necessary to minimize confusion and conflict.

so...just another example of friendly fire. NBD