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Sit, stand, kneel, or do whatever you like for the National Anthem

Cliffs notes for Mr. Green Beret and everyone else who needs:

The Flag (and Anthem) represent our country (The United States of America) and freedom.

The military represents the flag, The flag does not represent the military.

Nothing is more American than Freedom of Speech and peaceful protests, arguing against them are as un-American as it gets.
 
Thumb said:
Cliffs notes for Mr. Green Beret and everyone else who needs:

The Flag (and Anthem) represent our country (The United States of America) and freedom.

The military represents the flag, The flag does not represent the military.

Nothing is more American than Freedom of Speech and peaceful protests, arguing against them are as un-American as it gets.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
Thumb said:
Cliffs notes for Mr. Green Beret and everyone else who needs:

The Flag (and Anthem) represent our country (The United States of America) and freedom.

The military represents the flag, The flag does not represent the military.

Nothing is more American than Freedom of Speech and peaceful protests, arguing against them are as un-American as it gets.
Click to expand...

I've seen some on the left beginning to criticise the method here, given that 1) because many Americans are so nationalistic, using the national anthem for ANY protest would swing public opinion against you; Kaepernick could kneel to oppose child abuse and people would still go nuts; and 2) because it's too easy to co-opt into jingoistic nonsense, like "we're all Americans here, and we forgot what he was initially protesting now," ... although the NFL owners tried that once a couple weeks ago and it failed.

It's not going to be easy for them... since cops keep killing African Americans, and getting away with it with no - or almost no- repercussions, even when there's live video. "I'm kneeling until this stops" is a pretty simple, direct message.

also I didn't realize Kaepernick is kneeling to indicate his problem isn't with the military or dead veterans (link), although of course none of the blowhards seem to be able to understand that.
 
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TheVictors said:
Agree.

Racism and his cause are precisely why he's not on a roster.
Click to expand...

Racism? I don't think so, there are plenty of black QB's in the NFL. Owners don't want any blowback and potential loss of revenue over their choice of a backup QB. If Kapernick was a difference making starter, he'd have a job, but also, if he didn't piss off the fox news types by expressing himself, then he'd have a job.
 
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Sbee said:
Racism? I don't think so, there are plenty of black QB's in the NFL. Owners don't want any blowback and potential loss of revenue over their choice of a backup QB. If Kapernick was a difference making starter, he'd have a job, but also, if he didn't piss off the fox news types by expressing himself, then he'd have a job.
Click to expand...

This is what I think. I'm pretty sure I made this same point a ways back in the thread.
 
So, as I'm posting this, Curt, Terry, Howie, Jimmy and Michael are sitting (I guess) at attention to the national anthem being played by some military little band on board or just off board of some big battleship at the Norfolk Naval Base (often featured on television's #1 drama, NCIS, although it has suffered seriously since Dinozzo left - hey, did I ever tell you guys about the time...?)

I guess this is special for Veteran's Day.

So I'm wondering...does this count for the national anthem before all the games today, and do we get a week off from the whole thing?

Just, ya know...play the game? We all just heard the anthem just now on TV...
 
dubbsco said:
It was laughable for someone on this board to try and say he wasn't getting a job because he's not good enough. He's not getting a job because owners can't handle he has an opinion and they don't want the limelight.

Here are some of the guys that started this sunday:
Case Keenum
Jacoby Brissett
Mike Glennon
the corpse of Jay Cutler
Josh McCown
Brian Hoyer
Deshawn flippin Kizer

I'd take Kapernick before any and all of those guys.

Please, stop trying to suggest he's not getting a job because he's not good enough. You look foolish.
Click to expand...

hey Dubbs, can we scratch Case Keenum off this list or would you still take Kaepernick over him? Jacoby Brisset finished the season right around where Kaepernick finished 2015 and 2016 but it's kind of hard to make the case for discrimination when Brisset is also black. What about Josh McCown - unlike Kaepernick's last 3 seasons where he finished near the bottom, Josh finished in the top half of QBs by QBR while playing for the Jets. Kaepernick is probably at least as good as Kizer, but there again, Kizer is also black so it's tough to make the discrimination case. Plus, Kizer is a rookie and he plays for Cleveland who has a clearly demonstrated history of making horrible QB choices - maybe they'll be the team to sign Colin, but that would support my point more than yours.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
 
Spartanmack said:
hey Dubbs, can we scratch Case Keenum off this list or would you still take Kaepernick over him? Jacoby Brisset finished the season right around where Kaepernick finished 2015 and 2016 but it's kind of hard to make the case for discrimination when Brisset is also black. What about Josh McCown - unlike Kaepernick's last 3 seasons where he finished near the bottom, Josh finished in the top half of QBs by QBR while playing for the Jets. Kaepernick is probably at least as good as Kizer, but there again, Kizer is also black so it's tough to make the discrimination case. Plus, Kizer is a rookie and he plays for Cleveland who has a clearly demonstrated history of making horrible QB choices - maybe they'll be the team to sign Colin, but that would support my point more than yours.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
Click to expand...
wow, yeah when you add in things that hadn't happened yet when Dubbs made his post, you totally prove him wrong, bro! High five, dog.
 
michchamp said:
wow, yeah when you add in things that hadn't happened yet when Dubbs made his post, you totally prove him wrong, bro! High five, dog.
Click to expand...

bro, dubbs said Kaepernick would be better for all those teams than those guys. He specifically said he would take Kaepernick over ALL of them. I didn't prove him wrong, they did, bro. Bro, it's totally fair game to ask him if he still feels that way, bro.

you never make it even a little bit difficult, do you?
 
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tomdalton22 said:
$328M...even UM will look the other way for that kind of money
Click to expand...

WHOA!!! that's some serious scratch!


I was at the ND game where he had just given $100MM, or maybe it was $200MM, and they unfurled a huge banner across the north end of the Stadium thanking him personally.

I didn't like it.

I thought nothing is bigger than the Team, no man is bigger than the Team..?

here, I found a pic:
Thank_you_steve_flag-thumb-350x175-151051.jpg


maybe it's not fully stretched out? I remember it being bigger.
 
I don't think that's the worst of it. Apparently, Michigan lets his accountants exercise tax write off shenanigans with these donations. Something about he donates a property valued a $6 M, gets the $6 M write off, but then when Michigan sold it, it was $2 M and maybe they sold it to someone affiliated with him. I forget the details and certainly don't know what the norms are, but it sounded shady.

In my view, he's free to let players protest or ban them from protesting as long as he's willing to accept whatever public fallout there may be. The government can't stop the players from protesting, but the government can't require employers to allow protesting while working either. And if the players want to protest their boss, they're free to do that too.
 
Gulo Blue said:
I don't think that's the worst of it. Apparently, Michigan lets his accountants exercise tax write off shenanigans with these donations. Something about he donates a property valued a $6 M, gets the $6 M write off, but then when Michigan sold it, it was $2 M and maybe they sold it to someone affiliated with him. I forget the details and certainly don't know what the norms are, but it sounded shady.

In my view, he's free to let players protest or ban them from protesting as long as he's willing to accept whatever public fallout there may be. The government can't stop the players from protesting, but the government can't require employers to allow protesting while working either. And if the players want to protest their boss, they're free to do that too.
Click to expand...

we'd all be better off if he was not able to accrue such "wealth" in the first place, though it's hard to say what is worth anything these days, since fraud is so rapant and far more often than not, unpunished..
 
kBBuKon.jpg



Luke-warm take: NFL has every right to try to stop protests through penalizing players or teams, but whatever backlash they in terms of people's reactions (both positive and negative)is also fair game. Similarly, players have every right to protest, but they also have to live with these penalties and whatever reactions (positive or negative) the public voices. What protests are acceptable or go over the line and what penalties are ok or too much is entirely subjective and depends on the thing being protested and how. I think the NFL looks stupid trying to stop the kneeling, but I also wonder if they don't really give a crap and are just trying to stay in the news.
 
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