So how do you explain Rove?

[redandguilty]

I understand typical media-watching citizens being surprised by the results (given how the news portrayed how close the election was) and I understand why media figures had to act surprised after the fact. So was Karl Rove just acting surprised? If that was genuine shock, how do you explain that behavior? I thought he was supposed to be one of the poll-tracking, strategy-forming, system-savvy electoral masterminds. How could he have been caught so off-guard?

 

[JScottWriter]

He just lost supporters $300 million dollars. He was acting like the guy in court that just found out he was going to be put in jail the rest of his life.

 

[Michchamp]

He just lost supporters $300 million dollars. He was acting like the guy in court that just found out he was going to be put in jail the rest of his life.

yep.

he got overconfident.

like most of these sort of things, we lionize people, or give them more credit than they deserve, or give them all the credit when some of their success is due to circumstances outside of their control or their subordinates. so Rove was never as smart as people made him out to be.

he did a good job making Bush presentable, but it wasn't really an uphill battle, because Bush was the guy the oil and defense industries wanted. his cabinet was going to be packed with the same warmongers that had been pushing an invasion of the middle east throughout the 90's at various "think tanks"... Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Libby, etc. etc. all those clowns were on board. it's a lot easier getting elected president when you are the guy that the largest, wealthiest and most powerful industries in America wants to see in power. (but that's just common sense. To think otherwise, you'd have to be a complete moron)

Rove's job was just a matter of keeping Bush somewhat presentable. the path was already greased.

and before that, how much credit do you give a guy like Rove for simply being the one with no human decency whatsoever, willing to do anything to get his guy elected? In Texas he was linked to the rumors that Ann Richards was a lesbian, and in the 2000 primaries, spreading the rumors that McCain had a "black baby" in South Carolina.

not exactly rocket science...

now in 2012, Rove was up against the grain. He had an either an even or uphill fight trying to push all these Tea Party "pro-rape" nutjobs into the Senate, and Romney - perhaps one of the most unlikable people ever to run for President - into the White House.

He couldn't do it. He's only human, I guess...

it's only fitting seeing the knives come out for Rove now. he took $300 million or something like that, of which they estimate $80 million went to his SuperPACs as a his consulting fees... and he delivered a big goose egg.

I think there are a lot... A LOT of people smiling, both republicans and democrats... going back to Texas. Hell, even back to college.

 

[Michchamp]

this is an interesting incident in the making of Karl Rove, and his intro to the Bush family.

 

[redandguilty]

I thought he was credited with quite a bit more than Bush's election. Maybe I'm conflating Rove's strategy of making every appointment political with Gingrich's "Republican Revolution." Either way, if Rove isn't as smart as we thought he was (not just a little, by a lot if he didn't see and plan for the writing on the wall), it's scary how influential he got to be.

 

[Michchamp]

I thought he was credited with quite a bit more than Bush's election. Maybe I'm conflating Rove's strategy of making every appointment political with Gingrich's "Republican Revolution." Either way, if Rove isn't as smart as we thought he was (not just a little, by a lot if he didn't see and plan for the writing on the wall), it's scary how influential he got to be.

well... read the wikipedia article on Rove's college republican days.

George HW Bush knew he had his guy back then, I guess, and introduced a young Karl-o Rove to his son.

match made in hell...

 

[redandguilty]

well... read the wikipedia article on Rove's college republican days.

George HW Bush knew he had his guy back then, I guess, and introduced a young Karl-o Rove to his son.

match made in hell...

I was just reading that. Reminds me of my HOA last year. It was taken over by a very smart, but delusional guy. That image is probably going to stick with me now.

 

[Michchamp]

I was just reading that. Reminds me of my HOA last year. It was taken over by a very smart, but delusional guy. That image is probably going to stick with me now.

bummer.

when I clerked for a judge here, HOA/Condo Association fights were second only to divorces in terms of acrimony.

sounds like you could use the services of a certain attorney and Michigan alumnus who has extensively read the works of Machiavelli & also a certain little-known philosopher named Schembechler.

 

[redandguilty]

bummer.

when I clerked for a judge here, HOA/Condo Association fights were second only to divorces in terms of acrimony.

sounds like you could use the services of a certain attorney and Michigan alumnus who has extensively read the works of Machiavelli & also a certain little-known philosopher named Schembechler.

We took care of it last year...actually I guess it's 2 years ago now (time flies.) 25 of us went to court. The lawyer did the work nearly pro bono after we told him our story. Eventually, the 3 lawyers involved (our, his, and the HOA's insurance company) got together and talked the other 2 members of the HOA board that the best thing to do was step aside.

In my version of the story, the president (an analogy to Bush...put in power by Rove's efforts) walks in on the day we were sort of expecting a fight, ready to sign a settlement and step down. He portrayed his side of the story as one where Rove was pulling the strings, he was resisting, and we didn't understand how bad it was because Rove was crazy. Rove sent a letter to everyone in the neighborhood apologizing for not fighting hard enough and claiming that he made a mistake putting his faith in Bush who's behavior could only be explained by the idea that he has Alzheimer's (he doesn't). Allegedly, Rove also challenged Bush to a ten-steps and pistols duel when he found out about the "betrayal".

But it was amazing how he worked the system before it all fell apart. It involved proxy votes and invalidating proxy votes and Robert's Rules. We had police escorting people out of HOA meetings and hearings where people faced the board alone, not allowed to bring in witnesses or legal representatives that resulted in 6-year voting right suspensions and fines. It was awesome. And oh yeah, racial stuff. Rove wrote a letter and sent it to the community accusing someone of being racist. It was signed (typed) by Bush, but Bush said he didn't write or send it and Rove's style of writing is recognizable.

 

[Michchamp]

Karlo Rove!

 

[Michchamp]

We took care of it last year...actually I guess it's 2 years ago now (time flies.) 25 of us went to court. The lawyer did the work nearly pro bono after we told him our story. Eventually, the 3 lawyers involved (our, his, and the HOA's insurance company) got together and talked the other 2 members of the HOA board that the best thing to do was step aside.

In my version of the story, the president (an analogy to Bush...put in power by Rove's efforts) walks in on the day we were sort of expecting a fight, ready to sign a settlement and step down. He portrayed his side of the story as one where Rove was pulling the strings, he was resisting, and we didn't understand how bad it was because Rove was crazy. Rove sent a letter to everyone in the neighborhood apologizing for not fighting hard enough and claiming that he made a mistake putting his faith in Bush who's behavior could only be explained by the idea that he has Alzheimer's (he doesn't). Allegedly, Rove also challenged Bush to a ten-steps and pistols duel when he found out about the "betrayal".

But it was amazing how he worked the system before it all fell apart. It involved proxy votes and invalidating proxy votes and Robert's Rules. We had police escorting people out of HOA meetings and hearings where people faced the board alone, not allowed to bring in witnesses or legal representatives that resulted in 6-year voting right suspensions and fines. It was awesome. And oh yeah, racial stuff. Rove wrote a letter and sent it to the community accusing someone of being racist. It was signed (typed) by Bush, but Bush said he didn't write or send it and Rove's style of writing is recognizable.

where did Rove Jr. go after that? did he move out of the neighborhood?

that's the craziest thing of some of the battles these mini-Idi Amin's pick when they try to rule HOAs/Condo Assocs with an iron fist... you wonder was it worth it? what kind of person would want to live there now that all the neighbors hate them?

 

[redandguilty]

where did Rove Jr. go after that? did he move out of the neighborhood?

that's the craziest thing of some of the battles these mini-Idi Amin's pick when they try to rule HOAs/Condo Assocs with an iron fist... you wonder was it worth it? what kind of person would want to live there now that all the neighbors hate them?

Still lives here. He's been pretty quiet since then. Both of his neighbors moved. An older guy moved in next door that's nearly blind. Rove Jr. has called animal control on the guide dog and had some case thrown out where he tried to file something against the blind neighbor over a case of trespassing or something like that. Rove Jr's yard is now outlined with a string about a foot off the ground. A nice little trip wire.

 

[redandguilty]

Did you see this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ideo_n_2092224.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

1st video at 1:55. "Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?"

When FOX news is asking you that...that says something.

 

[JScottWriter]

That is saying "shut up, you're making us all look petty".

 

[TheVictors]

The collective FoxNews meltdown as the Election was being called was solid gold.


And besides, the right wing media machine is at its best when out of power and able to lob pot shots and spread half-truths in order to tear down, rather than build up.

 

[tinselwolverine]

bummer.

when I clerked for a judge here, HOA/Condo Association fights were second only to divorces in terms of acrimony.

sounds like you could use the services of a certain attorney and Michigan alumnus who has extensively read the works of Machiavelli & also a certain little-known philosopher named Schembechler.

I was the president of an HOA for a couple years.

I thought I had to deal with craziness; but I had no craziness like Red's.

The condo where I used to live with my first wife, there was craziness too but again nothing like Red's (that I'm aware).

I guess HOAs and craziness just go hand in hand.

 

[TheVictors]

My brother was his HOA treasurer one year, what with business background and all. He wound up being nominated for the Pres role the following year and said he'd never do it again. Suddenly that batshit lady in C-3 is calling him day and night to complain and all these silly personal vendettas being waged within the development.

Sheesh.

 

[Michchamp]

I was the president of an HOA for a couple years.

I thought I had to deal with craziness; but I had no craziness like Red's.

The condo where I used to live with my first wife, there was craziness too but again nothing like Red's (that I'm aware).

I guess HOAs and craziness just go hand in hand.

could you share some of the stories?

crazy political pissing contests are entirely appropriate for a thread about Karlo Rove.

 

[Michchamp]

The collective FoxNews meltdown as the Election was being called was solid gold.


And besides, the right wing media machine is at its best when out of power and able to lob pot shots and spread half-truths in order to tear down, rather than build up.

I think that's due to change.

there were legitimate gripes about Obama's presidency, but the whole "taxes are too high, regulations are killing business, welfare handouts to the poor are excessive" is factually baseless, and I think this election results shows those sort of attacks only brings in <50% of the vote, so the GOP needs a new tactic.

they'll continue to bash Obama, sure, but they're going to have to find a new way to do it, or they're going to continue to lose market share.

also: the on-air "talent" at Fox seems to be slipping. There were a lot of brain-dead commentators, bad botox & bad plastic surgery jobs on display last Tuesday, and I was thinking to myself, if they continue to lose credibility at the clip they're going, they are really going to be scraping the barrel to bring in newsreaders and pundits... having to rely on aging blond bimbos with IQs of 6 or lower trying to jump from the beauty pageant circuit to the TV news is only going to make things worse for them.

 

[TheVictors]

The whole premise of the "right media" took years to sell and may have run its course. When Jon Stewart - a comedian - is more intelligent than your contributors and when you spend 30 seconds at the end of every show, acknowledging the ERRORS during the broadcast, you're dealing with idiots.

And Murdoch is a Grade-A sleezebag. All these self-righteous "conservatives" lapping up news info from a guy who made his name in the British tabloid rags>? HA!