Steel tariff vs infrastructure

[biggunsbob]

Was it 106 Gop members write the white House to tell Mr Idiot what a dumb idea this is ? Dingbat in the oval office just never learns. Mr Twitter better be careful before he starts a World War soon.

 

[sggatecl]

Forbidden link

https://www.infowars.com/trump-effect-us-steel-reopens-plant-brings-back-500-jobs/

Short sighted and very small minded.

The domestic steel industry is not vanishing, far from it actually. 70 percent of the steel bought for use in the United States is produced here in the USA.

https://www.steel.org/~/media/Files/AISI/Public%20Policy/2018/232-Letter-2018.pdf

Also, American steel production hasn't changed much over the past decades. In fact, since 2010 it's actually increased.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IPN3311A2RN

 

[biggunsbob]

Forbidden link

https://www.infowars.com/trump-effect-us-steel-reopens-plant-brings-back-500-jobs/

Did info wars mention the jobs that could possibly be lost ? I doubt it. A possible 90,000 could be lost .


But then this is the liberal CNN. You know the network that gave Trump nonstop coverage up to election day. Nonstop.


http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/07/news/companies/trump-tariffs-steel-jobs/index.html

 

[turok]

After Cohn's resignation, Trump's press secretary Sarah Huck-Sanders claimed yesterday that “There are potential carve-outs for Mexico and Canada based on national security, and possibly other countries, as well, based on that process,” she said. “That would be a case-by-case and country-by-country basis.”

"Carve-outs" based upon "national security"...lol...is she basing that upon the Drumpfs' and the Kushners' dealings with shady foreign characters in Eastern Europe?

When he initially decided on the plan, he reportedly said that the 25 percent tariff on foreign steel and 10 percent tariff on foreign aluminum would apply to all countries, because otherwise, everyone would ask for an exemption.


Since both Canada and Mexico are our primary suppliers of imported steel, Donnie is in full flip-flop mode, from his previous hard-line stance. How he will have even a shred of credibility remaining for the fall mid-terms to endorse Republican candidates is very unlikely...and unwanted.

 

[Michchamp]

I think - like everyone else - few people know what the tariff really will impact, and how much of an impact it will have.

So call me crazy, but I actually am in favor of what Trump proposed, with that being said; I think Cohn's resignation is a good sign.

My general understanding is that free trade deals have been bad for American workers.... all American workers, including white collar ones.

Free trade deals allowed capital to circumvent US labor, which was getting harder and harder to exploit and push around, and move production to 3rd world countries (with the assistance of their governments and security forces/ militaries).

The counter argument is "look how much cheap shit you can buy; you couldn't afford it all if it was made in the US."

but is that really true?

are people better off being able to earn a living wage, or being able to buy cheap consumer shit (mostly on credit, since they have no decent jobs, if the current ballooning national household debt is any indication...)???

I don't remember any of my family members complaining about not being able to afford things prior to NAFTA and all these neo-liberal "free trade" things going through. to the contrary... both my grandfathers, despite being city employees in Detroit, owned small cottages to vacation in. Both were able to send my parents to private schools on their salaries. and college wasn't an issue... neither of my parents had to take out loans to pay for it. they didn't have to pay 1/5 of their salary for "health insurance" either.

I say fucking slap tariffs on ALL this shit. The right people are complaining about it.


no one is going to win a trade war with the US... they'll lose the customer paying the lion's share of their bills.

 

[Gulo Blue]

"Carve-outs" based upon "national security"...lol

I heard something about this. I think what they were saying is that the President has the power to do this based on laws written to enhance national security. The tariffs protect strategically important industries and the exceptions go to our allies that we would expect to be able to rely on in war time.

 

[Gulo Blue]

So call me crazy, but I actually am in favor of what Trump proposed, with that being said; I think Cohn's resignation is a good sign.

I don't know the steel industry well enough, but I could buy into the idea that targeted tariffs are a good idea. We've faced the problem of countries selling through other countries before. It's a cat and mouse game, but we can play it.

I'd like to see something done about rare earth metal production. Preferably subsidies and research grants to develop cleaner ways to produce them because just using tariffs would promote making them with the existing dirty methods.

 

[turok]

I don't remember any of my family members complaining about not being able to afford things prior to NAFTA and all these neo-liberal "free trade" things going through. to the contrary... both my grandfathers, despite being city employees in Detroit, owned small cottages to vacation in. Both were able to send my parents to private schools on their salaries. and college wasn't an issue... neither of my parents had to take out loans to pay for it. they didn't have to pay 1/5 of their salary for "health insurance" either.

w/o going into great detail, those were different times, with most families owning one electronic gizmo each, such as a vacuum-tube color TV console, B&W portable, AM-FM table radio, and "record player", no whole-house or unit A/C, no microwave, no dishwasher, one rotary-dial wall or table telephone, one "Brownie" flash-bulb camera, one portable transistor AM-FM radio, a washing machine with an outdoor clothesline tree for drying, (or in the basement during winter) one used station wagon (my late father took the bus to and from work during the school-year). We were only one of three families on our block that owned a cottage "up North"...and the only one who stayed up there from the end of the school year to the Labor Day weekend...I'm very fortunate for having parents who sacrificed, so that we kids could do that.

The higher cost of living now is partly attributable to electronic/electric vapor, being the cost of smartphones/carriers, broadband internet, cable-satellite TV, gaming consoles and software, PCs/laptops/ipads/ipods, HDTVs...ect. Plus my electric bill is insanely high compared to what it was 20 years ago, and we don't have any kids.

 

[turok]

I heard something about this. I think what they were saying is that the President has the power to do this based on laws written to enhance national security. The tariffs protect strategically important industries and the exceptions go to our allies that we would expect to be able to rely on in war time.

Yeah...but only two nations are even remotely worthy of being our adversaries in wartime, and they would need to cripple US electronically to begin with. The Drumpf administration has failed to act on that threat.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yeah...but only two nations are even remotely worthy of being our adversaries in wartime, and they would need to cripple US electronically to begin with. The Drumpf administration has failed to act on that threat.

And those are exactly the countries targeted tariffs should target.

 

[Michchamp]

article on which countries the proposed tariffs would impact (note: surprisingly China is not as affected)

I'm still more interested in what the domestic economic effects would be, and have yet to read a trustworthy unbiased source on that.

 

[turok]

And those are exactly the countries targeted tariffs should target.

To be fair, the OPM database was successfully hacked and cracked by purportedly Chinese blackhats on Obama's watch...that is juicy govmint blackmail territory, and damn near made me physically ill, when I read about it.

 

[sggatecl]

article on which countries the proposed tariffs would impact (note: surprisingly China is not as affected)

I'm still more interested in what the domestic economic effects would be, and have yet to read a trustworthy unbiased source on that.

The only people surprised by it are people not paying attention. It's been repeatedly reported and wrote about the only reason China is in the discussion is because Trump loves to talk about China.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The only people surprised by it are people not paying attention.

Count me among those not paying attention I guess. I had no idea we imported so little steel from China.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Now I'm sort of interested to know if Trump will impose a tariff on Russian steel.

 

[sggatecl]

Count me among those not paying attention I guess. I had no idea we imported so little steel from China.

It's possible my RSS feed is just a well oiled and finely tuned machine. :cheers:

 

[turok]

The US does not directly import much Chinese steel anymore, but if China is circumventing it by using other 3rd world nations who are lax on preventing their criminal elements (who also have infiltrated high levels of their government) from rebranding Chinese steel as exports from their own country, I don't see how anything less than an embargo will stop it.

 

[sggatecl]

Trump sets metals tariffs but exempts Canada and Mexico

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-trade/trump-sets-metals-tariffs-but-exempts-canada-and-mexico-idUSKCN1GK09C

WASHINGTON/SANTIAGO (Reuters) - President Donald Trump pressed ahead with the imposition of 25 percent tariffs on steel imports and 10 percent on aluminum on Thursday but exempted Canada and Mexico, backtracking from earlier pledges of tariffs on all countries.

Details of the plan came from a briefing by administration officials ahead of Trump’s speech, which had been due to start at 3:30 p.m. (2030 GMT). Trump will say that other countries can apply for exemptions, according to the administration, although details of when they would be granted were thin.

Trump has offered relief from steel and aluminum tariffs to countries that “treat us fairly on trade,” a gesture aimed at putting pressure on Canada and Mexico to give ground in separate talks on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which appear to be stalled.

Trump has also demanded concession from the European Union, complaining that it treated American cars unfairly and has threatened to hike tariffs on auto imports from Europe.

Stock markets in Canada and Mexico rallied on the news, as did the Canadian dollar and the Mexican peso.

There was no mention of Mexico and Canada giving ground on NAFTA in the proposals.

Trump’s tariffs have triggered the threat of countermeasures from the European Union and now China. The levies aim to hit Beijing, although China exports very little of either metal to the United States.

_____________________________________________

Now I'm sort of interested to know if Trump will impose a tariff on Russian steel.

The answer appears to be yes.

 

[Spartanmack]

Count me among those not paying attention I guess. I had no idea we imported so little steel from China.

china is way behind the curve in steel technology. They can't produce high quality steel or at least not enough to export and the lower grade stuff they can produce doesn't have high enough margins - can't make money shipping it halfway around the world, shipping is way too expensive.

 

[sggatecl]

In my best Lee Corso voice, "Not so fast my friend."

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/377477-flake-to-introduce-bill-to-nullify-trumps-tariffs

Flake to introduce bill to nullify Trump's tariffs

Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) said on Thursday that he will introduce legislation to nix President Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminum imports just minutes after they were announced.

"I will immediately draft and introduce legislation to nullify these tariffs, and I urge my colleagues to pass it before this exercise in protectionism inflicts any more damage on the economy," Flake said in a statement.

Trump announced that he would levy the penalties — a 25 percent tariff for steel and 10 percent on aluminum — during a White House event. Canada and Mexico are exempted amid larger trade negotiations, Trump said.

But the decision is expected to spark widespread backlash from Capitol Hill.

Republicans worked frantically, without success, for days to publicly and privately urge the administration to back down or at least narrow the tariffs.

“These so-called ‘flexible tariffs’ are a marriage of two lethal poisons to economic growth — protectionism and uncertainty. Trade wars are not won, they are only lost. Congress cannot be complicit as the administration courts economic disaster," Flake added on Thursday.