The Pope is on Drugs

[Gulo Blue]

But they are. And you have no clue whether they'd be destroying innocents under another banner otherwise.

This is a correlation equals causation argument. To assert that you can't make arguments about things other than the way they are...

It's not right to think I have no clue. I think the fact that religion has no impact on people's decision to make babies, in spite of all it says on the subject, is strong evidence that there are other more important factors at play. You don't even have weak evidence. 31,000 ISIS members in a religion of 1.6 Billion. Scaled to the population of the US and doing a google search, that's like pointing to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to stereotype Americans. "Friggin' Americans, they're always walkin' around giving people Oscars."

 

[jwlcosu]

I'd argue that by assuming millions of Muslims are jihadists that it makes you bias against Muslims more so.

I accept that criticism in the sense that the most effective way for the world to be rid of the Jihadi, would be for the billion and a half or so of Muslims in the world to police the bad actors among them, themselves. If they would clean their own house, I'd feel better about the religion itself. Until that happens, then yes, I think their religion pretty much sucks.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

This is a correlation equals causation argument. To assert that you can't make arguments about things other than the way they are...

It's not right to think I have no clue. I think the fact that religion has no impact on people's decision to make babies, in spite of all it says on the subject, is strong evidence that there are other more important factors at play. You don't even have weak evidence. 31,000 ISIS members in a religion of 1.6 Billion. Scaled to the population of the US and doing a google search, that's like pointing to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to stereotype Americans. "Friggin' Americans, they're always walkin' around giving people Oscars."

There is difference between an ISIS member and an ISIS supporter/sympathizer.

Take for example your continental army during the armed insurrection against the British empire. Number of troops peaked at what, 80-90k?

Of course none of the other 3 million within the colonies supported them right? Granted it was a minority that supported the war, just like it is a minority that supports ISIS.

 

[sggatecl]

I accept that criticism in the sense that the most effective way for the world to be rid of the Jihadi, would be for the billion and a half or so of Muslims in the world to police the bad actors among them, themselves. If they would clean their own house, I'd feel better about the religion itself. Until that happens, then yes, I think their religion pretty much sucks.

Yeah, I just hate when religious institutions don't take of their own internal problems. I wonder if you apply that logic to other religions? If so, good for you.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/special-reports/2015/10/26/bcom-spotlight/Lpj4dYVIppnWLVqEzyr5bK/story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/03/03/abuse-survivor-advocates-see-hope-in-spotlight-and-in-new-report-alleging-widespread-cover-up/?utm_term=.20cc221e06f2

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-pope-benedict-knew-about-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

 

[jwlcosu]

Yeah, I just hate when religious institutions don't take of their own internal problems. I wonder if you apply that logic to other religions? If so, good for you.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/special-reports/2015/10/26/bcom-spotlight/Lpj4dYVIppnWLVqEzyr5bK/story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/03/03/abuse-survivor-advocates-see-hope-in-spotlight-and-in-new-report-alleging-widespread-cover-up/?utm_term=.20cc221e06f2

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-pope-benedict-knew-about-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

I certainly do.

 

[jwlcosu]

This is a correlation equals causation argument. To assert that you can't make arguments about things other than the way they are...

It's not right to think I have no clue. I think the fact that religion has no impact on people's decision to make babies, in spite of all it says on the subject, is strong evidence that there are other more important factors at play. You don't even have weak evidence. 31,000 ISIS members in a religion of 1.6 Billion. Scaled to the population of the US and doing a google search, that's like pointing to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to stereotype Americans. "Friggin' Americans, they're always walkin' around giving people Oscars."

Remember when ISIS was the "JV Squad?" Kinda like the Penn State of murdering terrorists? And then there's Al Qaeda, however they're spelling it these days, and then the sympathizers. Whatever the number is, it's way too many. I just take people and organizations at face value without trying to ascribe or guess at motives that aren't evident and which may or may not exist. When the butchers do it in the name of Allah, that's fucked up. A similar phenomenon simply doesn't exist in the Judeo-Christian world.

 

[byco42]

How about believing the bible?

Sacred scripture is basically my foundation. Particularly the New Testament, but there are so many what are called types in the Old Testament, that they conjoin. So, yes, I believe the Bible, especially the part where Christ says "Follow Me."

 

[Spartanmack]

In the Crusades, the cry was "Deus hoc vult!" But that's not the point.

Point is, while we don't have isolated populations for controlled experiments, I believe a much stronger case can be made for economics being the driving force and religion being a tool that is easily substituted by other ideologies. If these people weren't pushed by a twisted version of Islam, they'd be doing the same stuff under some other banner.

it's not the point because Christianity has been through a reformation and while predominantly Christian nations may go to war, those wars are not waged in the name of Christianity despite what people like Reza Aslan might say.

what banner would they be doing it under? I doubt if we gave these people jobs like Marie Harf suggested, that they would suddenly or even eventually lay down their weapons. Pew numbers suggest otherwise - there is indeed a religious aspect to radical islam and major cultural differences with even "moderate" muslims. If Islam doesn't go through a reformation where the majority denounce certain practices including jihad, people will continue to kill no matter how many jobs you give them. In fact, you probably need that reformation and social reform to get many to accept economic reform.

 

[Spartanmack]

And you have no clue whether it's 'millions' of jihadi but you took the leap. Only fair for others to make biased assumptions.

aren't there a billion or even 1.5B Muslims in the world? And with the conservative estimates placing the radicals at 1%, you're talking about 10 to 15mm of them. That doesn't seem like a huge leap or a biased assumption.

Edit: it appears there are approx. 1.6B Muslims so you're talking about 16mm radicals - how many of those are now or likely to become actual jihadis is another question, but I don't think the "millions" is misleading.

 

[b311j]

Sacred scripture is basically my foundation. Particularly the New Testament, but there are so many what are called types in the Old Testament, that they conjoin. So, yes, I believe the Bible, especially the part where Christ says "Follow Me."

Yikes. So you support rape, murder, incest, genocide and the such. The bible is full of such wonderment.

 

[byco42]

Yikes. So you support rape, murder, incest, genocide and the such.

Not in any way, but you know that already. You need to graduate from a cursory comprehension of scripture. And factor in God's limitless mercy in the attempt.

The bible is full of such wonderment.

You are absolutely correct, especially the Gospels.

 

[Michchamp]

Yikes. So you support rape, murder, incest, genocide and the such. The bible is full of such wonderment.

if superstitious, ignorant desert tribes from 3,000 years ago believed a supernatural man living in the sky told them to go ahead and do those things because they were his "chosen people"... I can't really think of any good reason why we should question that today. Good enough for them, good enough for me!

 

[b311j]

Not in any way, but you know that already. You need to graduate from a cursory comprehension of scripture. And factor in God's limitless mercy in the attempt.

You are absolutely correct, especially the Gospels.

gods mercy? Riiiight. How many people did he kill again? Not including the great flood.

 

[Michchamp]

I read a number of accounts of fundamentalist Christian American troops (including officers who are presumably educated at western universities...) justifying all sorts of atrocities against Iraqi civilians - or as they typically referred to all of them "Hajjis" - on the basis of their "heathen god" even though technically Allah is the same make believe supreme being as the christian god.

and this echoed the US Army/General Westmoreland justifying the slaughter of Vietnamese civilians in the 60's because "asiatics don't value human life like we Americans do."

We're no better than them, culturally, morally or philosophically, we just grew up in a different place, and have more money and military power.

and, hey, jwilco... tough guy... I would love to see you go and do something about this "muslim threat"
instead of just typing about it on the internet. maybe the board can take up a collection to pay for a one-way ticket to Raqqa or Mosul so you can fight "them" over there? We'd be so eternally grateful to you for our freedom.

 

[byco42]

gods mercy? Riiiight. How many people did he kill again? Not including the great flood.

Well, you know, he's God, He created us, and that's His prerogative. Like I said, you are not considering even the basest of possibilities, for example: why was Noah the only person to build an Ark?

"The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."

 

[tinselwolverine]

Like I said, you are not considering even the basest of possibilities, for example: why was Noah the only person to build an Ark?

Was it because Noah looked like Russell Crowe?

In the movie, Noah's kids and his wife, played by Jennifer Connolly, seemed to me to pitch in with the building of the ark, and the getting of the animals all on board, and the what not.

As I recall Jennifer Connolly made some kind of potion to calm the animals down and keep them all from eating each other.

 

[byco42]

Was it because Noah looked like Russell Crowe?

In the movie, Noah's kids and his wife, played by Jennifer Connolly, seemed to me to pitch in with the building of the ark, and the getting of the animals all on board, and the what not.

As I recall Jennifer Connolly made some kind of potion to calm the animals down and keep them all from eating each other.

I was seriously going to ask you to back me on this because Russell Crowe would not have played the role of Noah for fictions' sake.

 

[Michchamp]

Noah built a boat on which he fit a male and female of every terrestrial species on Earth (the best estimates are that there are 8,700,000 different such species) and successfully bred them all to fully repopulate the Earth after a forty day flood, which was deep enough to cover all the land on Earth, up to the 25,000 foot tall Mount Everest. Also, all that water went somewhere after the flood receded... but don't worry too much about the details. it resolved itself. also Noah's kids had to engage in marathon incest sessions to repopulate humanity, but despite the genetic bottleneck that occurred, somehow there were all different races living in Asia, Africa, Europe, North & South America, and Oceania, again in a couple years after the flood.

this all seems perfectly reasonable, no? Just don't think too hard about any of it.

believe in the Bible... sort of. Some things were meant to be taken literally, others were just allegories and metaphors. The priests know which is which and through their benevolence will teach us all.

- 8-year-old MichChamp nods yes, and puts a quarter in the collection basket. That quarter helps pay the minimum wage salary for a day in 1988 of the guy the Vatican hires to polish the gold in Vatican Gold Vault #4,236.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I was seriously going to ask you to back me on this because Russell Crowe would not have played the role of Noah for fictions' sake.

Oh.

Well, I don't know any other reason why Noah would have been the only one to build the ark.

Except as I recall from Catechism Noah and his family were the only good people left on earth.

But Russell Crowe is a good actor; he was convincing to me as Noah, just like he was as Maximus in Gladiator, or John Nash in A Beautiful Mind, or Javert in Les Miserables, or Jim Braddock in Cinderella Man, or Jor-El or Robin Hood...

He's pretty good in everything.

He came off to me as goodly and righteous as Noah, even if maybe in really life he isn't that much.

 

[byco42]

Oh.

Well, I don't know any other reason why Noah would have been the only one to build the ark.

Except as I recall from Catechism Noah and his family were the only good people left on earth.

But Russell Crowe is a good actor; he was convincing to me as Noah, just like he was as Maximus in Gladiator, or John Nash in A Beautiful Mind, or Javert in Les Miserables, or Jim Braddock in Cinderella Man, or Jor-El or Robin Hood...

He's pretty good in everything.

He came off to me as goodly and righteous as Noah, even if maybe in really life he isn't that much.

He was good in that movie where he broke Elizabeth Banks from jail.