This is out of control

[Spartanmack]

Hold on: Stalin was not greedy. Everyone knows this. Neither are the Castro brothers. They are/were all about seeing to the common good.

And Chavez? A real philanthropist.

Was Chavez all that greedy though? He was only worth $2bln when he died. Imagine the wealth he could have accumulated if he was a greedy capitalist...

 

[Gulo Blue]

The invisible hand metaphor was used to describe the unintended social benefits (efficient allocation of resources throughout an economy) of individuals acting rationally.

Acting rationally...in their own self interest in a free market system where wealth is not just redistributed according to need. Change the system and 'acting rationally' means doing something else.

 

[Gulo Blue]

What's the difference between greed and desire and want and motivation anyway? Is a football team greedy if they want to wins all of their games?

I don't care if you call it greed or not. It is the right motivational force, we call it greedy when it gets to be too much. Big deal. It's just a weasel word used to paint capitalism a certain way. It's not wrong, it's just not helpful either.

 

[tinselwolverine]

What's the difference between greed and desire and want and motivation anyway? Is a football team greedy if they want to wins all of their games?

I don't care if you call it greed or not. It is the right motivational force, we call it greedy when it gets to be too much. Big deal. It's just a weasel word used to paint capitalism a certain way. It's not wrong, it's just not helpful either.

Yeah, I agree, to me "greed" has a connotation similar "gluttony;" excessive consumption beyond one's self interest.

You want to be successful in transactions; but you don't want to leave someone you do business with feeling screwed over because you are "greedy" because you obviously want to leave the door open to doing more successful transactions with them going forward.

 

[Spartanmack]

Acting rationally...in their own self interest in a free market system where wealth is not just redistributed according to need. Change the system and 'acting rationally' means doing something else.

Sure, changing the system or even just the rules, adding regulation or other constraints will absolutely impact the decisions rational actors will make. My point there was that the invisible hand specifically describes unintended benefits (consequences) which your prior post said it didn't - unless I misinterpreted your post.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Sure, changing the system or even just the rules, adding regulation or other constraints will absolutely impact the decisions rational actors will make. My point there was that the invisible hand specifically describes unintended benefits (consequences) which your prior post said it didn't - unless I misinterpreted your post.

Oh. Ok, I didn't mean that. I just meant the good of capitalism, that it drives production towards efficiency.

 

[Spartanmack]

What's the difference between greed and desire and want and motivation anyway? Is a football team greedy if they want to wins all of their games?

I don't care if you call it greed or not. It is the right motivational force, we call it greedy when it gets to be too much. Big deal. It's just a weasel word used to paint capitalism a certain way. It's not wrong, it's just not helpful either.

This is exactly right.

The various dictionaries all define greed to be an "excess desire". I do think it's wrong though to say Capitalism is about or driven by greed. As i said before, greed corrupts all political and economic systems. People are utility maximizers and they're going to act in ways that benefit them most regardless of what system is in place. The greater the level of regulation or economic planning, the more perverted resource allocation decisions are going to be made.

 

[Michchamp]

Hold on: Stalin was not greedy. Everyone knows this. Neither are the Castro brothers. They are/were all about seeing to the common good.

And Chavez? A real philanthropist.

yes, Stalin, the Castros, etc. really used communism to line their pockets...

 

[Michchamp]

Yeah, I agree, to me "greed" has a connotation similar "gluttony;" excessive consumption beyond one's self interest.

...

that's it. you can call it "unrestrained capitalism" if you want, but that's the outcome of capitalism if left to its own devices.

like dumping a handful of rats on a tropical island, they'll consume all the resources, then starve. the strongest rat gets to be the last one to starve. there's no "individual rights" there or respect for "competition."

prior to the Sherman Act, and other laws, there were almost no constraints on business in the USA, and the results were similar, with booms and busts, panics, runs on banks, that ruined economies and didn't resolve themselves for years. look at how Carnegie, Gould, Rockefeller, etc. behaved... where are the respect for laws, respect for individual rights and property, and competition? It was all completely out the window.

you can dress it up as much as you like, but you can't explain away that capitalism by itself is simply the economic manifestation of the most base instincts of all - greed.

 

[grandy]

 

[Spartanmack]

yes, Stalin, the Castros, etc. really used communism to line their pockets...

http://nypost.com/2015/05/10/inside-fidel-castros-luxurious-life-on-his-secret-island-getaway/

 

[Gulo Blue]

you can dress it up as much as you like, but you can't explain away that capitalism by itself is simply the economic manifestation of the most base instincts of all - greed.

This is hyperbole. Do you rail about addiction every time someone has a beer? Or gluttony every meal? You must be fun at parties if you allow yourself such decadence.

Don't tell me you advocate that we all pursue a Spartan existence.

(I could have gone with some different punctuation here...change that 1st period to a colon and it still works.)

 

[Spartanmack]

This is hyperbole. Do you rail about addiction every time someone has a beer? Or gluttony every meal? You must be fun at parties if you allow yourself such decadence.

Don't tell me you advocate that we all pursue a Spartan existence.

(I could have gone with some different punctuation here...change that 1st period to a colon and it still works.)

I would advocate for everyone to pursue the life of a Spartan but not necessarily a Spartan life.

 

[Michchamp]

This is hyperbole.

It is not.

Do you rail about addiction every time someone has a beer? Or gluttony every meal? ...

No.

Don't tell me you advocate that we all pursue a Spartan existence.

...

you mean like this?

of course not.

 

[Michchamp]

http://nypost.com/2015/05/10/inside-fidel-castros-luxurious-life-on-his-secret-island-getaway/

this doesn't disprove anything I've written about capitalism.

you can't so we get hand waving and finger pointing at communist dictators...

 

[byco42]

this doesn't disprove anything I've written about capitalism.

You've been poisoned by an educational system that makes money by the bucketful and offers classes and degrees in subjects that denounce the very system that made it flush in capital.

Let's just all go back to being subsistence farmers and keep to ourselves.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Let's just all go back to being subsistence farmers and keep to ourselves.

Can I be a spear fisherman instead?

I look like crap and overalls.

 

[byco42]

Can I be a spear fisherman instead?

I look like crap and overalls.

Sure. I'll trade you fish for produce. If I can harness my unbridled greed.

 

[jwlcosu]

You've been poisoned by an educational system that makes money by the bucketful and offers classes and degrees in subjects that denounce the very system that made it flush in capital.

Ain't that the truth. They don't know and they don't know that they don't know because that's what they've been taught. They're victims of the system and the polar opposite of free-thinkers. They don't know that either.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Sure. I'll trade you fish for produce. If I can harness my unbridled greed.

You could bring tomatoes and onions to the wharf and have cioppino with us fishermen.

That's how cioppino started; the fishermen would each pool a little bit of their catch at the end of the day and eat on the wharf.