Thoughts on Israel

[Sbee]

Does Israel publicly hang people for being gay? Is belonging to some religion other than Judaism a crime punishable by death in Israel? Is Israel the only country pursuing nuclear weapons with the stated desire to wipe another country off the face of the earth rather than as a deterrent like every other nuclear country? Do women in Israel have to wear a niqab or face public beatings by police for not adequately covering their bodies so as not to tempt men to rape them? The human rights violations as a matter of government policy in Iran and other muslim countries in the middle east are exponentially worse than what happens in Israel. Israel is literally the only democracy in the middle east and it's muslim citizens get to vote. There is no question which country is worse. No question.

agree 100%, i think the point was that Israel is hardly a beacon of diplomacy with the expanding settlements.

I think all religions have some crazy beliefs but Islam is the worst and it's not even close. I don't think Jews would want blood if someone drew a cartoon that they thought was offensive. people say there's a radical minority in the religion but there's also a silent majority that's complicit with the extremist actions

 

[Spartanmack]

Gish Gallop

swing and a miss - again. This is just more of that thing you do when someone you don't like says something you can't refute. The gish gallop require multiple small arguments that are often half-truths or outright lies or strawmen? One again, I'll have to explain it in simple terms that even you can understand. Those were all examples of one issue/argument, that issue being human rights violations as a matter of government policy - except for the point about Iran being the only country pursuing Nuclear weapons with the stated desire to murder an entire country. Although one could argue that living in peace without the fear of a homicidal maniac murdering millions of innocent people because he doesn't think they have a right to exist is a basic human right.

Anyone who thinks Israel is on the same or an even lower moral plane as Iran has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Spartanmack]

agree 100%, i think the point was that Israel is hardly a beacon of diplomacy with the expanding settlements.

I think all religions have some crazy beliefs but Islam is the worst and it's not even close. I don't think Jews would want blood if someone drew a cartoon that they thought was offensive. people say there's a radical minority in the religion but there's also a silent majority that's complicit with the extremist actions

I agree on the distinction between the various religions but I would add that although Israel is a Jewish state and there is a subset of the population that is very religious, it is largely secular and more culturally Jewish than religiously Jewish - that may be why there is more religious tolerance/integration in Israel than any of the Muslim countries in the Middle East. As for the silent majority, I think it's unfair to say they are complicit. To me, it's more accurate to say they are irrelevant - the extremist minority acts without regard for the beliefs or wishes of the majority.

 

[Michchamp]

swing and a miss - again. This is just more of that thing you do when someone you don't like says something you can't refute. The gish gallop require multiple small arguments that are often half-truths or outright lies or strawmen? One again, I'll have to explain it in simple terms that even you can understand. Those were all examples of one issue/argument, that issue being human rights violations as a matter of government policy - except for the point about Iran being the only country pursuing Nuclear weapons with the stated desire to murder an entire country. Although one could argue that living in peace without the fear of a homicidal maniac murdering millions of innocent people because he doesn't think they have a right to exist is a basic human right.

Anyone who thinks Israel is on the same or an even lower moral plane as Iran has no idea what they are talking about.

What you did was exactly the Gish gallop.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I agree on the distinction between the various religions but I would add that although Israel is a Jewish state and there is a subset of the population that is very religious, it is largely secular and more culturally Jewish than religiously Jewish - that may be why there is more religious tolerance/integration in Israel than any of the Muslim countries in the Middle East.

When I used to book the Tonight Show audience at the Hollywood Chinese theater, i'd encounter a bunch a young Israelis that had all kinds of tattoos and stuff, the young people that I know from Israel tended not to be that religious.

 

[Spartanmack]

What you did was exactly the Gish gallop.

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Michchamp]

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Haha okay. Your word against mine I suppose...

 

[Spartanmack]

When I used to book the Tonight Show audience at the Hollywood Chinese theater, i'd encounter a bunch a young Israelis that had all kinds of tattoos and stuff, the young people that I know from Israel tended not to be that religious.

most of my friends that are Jewish, including a couple ex-Israeli military folks, are not religious and identify as Jews largely in the same way many Americans identify as Irish, Italian, Spanish, etc...

 

[Spartanmack]

Haha okay. Your word against mine I suppose...

Yeah, as always - fact vs. opinion...

 

[Sbee]

I agree on the distinction between the various religions but I would add that although Israel is a Jewish state and there is a subset of the population that is very religious, it is largely secular and more culturally Jewish than religiously Jewish - that may be why there is more religious tolerance/integration in Israel than any of the Muslim countries in the Middle East. As for the silent majority, I think it's unfair to say they are complicit. To me, it's more accurate to say they are irrelevant - the extremist minority acts without regard for the beliefs or wishes of the majority.

Check these numbers out

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

 

[Spartanmack]

Check these numbers out

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

wow, that's pretty shocking. Either there is a massive sampling error or we are using a pretty watered-down definition of what makes someone an extremist. The data on honor killings is not as thorough but it isn't any less horrifying.

 

[Michchamp]

Wow. We should begin bombing those countries as soon as possible.

 

[Sbee]

wow, that's pretty shocking. Either there is a massive sampling error or we are using a pretty watered-down definition of what makes someone an extremist. The data on honor killings is not as thorough but it isn't any less horrifying.

what's more shocking is the opinions of british muslims, which you would think are more moderate. 1 in 4 feel that the 7/7 bombings were justified.

 

[Sbee]

Wow. We should begin bombing those countries as soon as possible.

we're sending drones over these countries, killing innocent civilians along with terrorists. we're creating terrorists faster than we can kill them, fighting the supply side.

 

[Spartanmack]

what's more shocking is the opinions of british muslims, which you would think are more moderate. 1 in 4 feel that the 7/7 bombings were justified.

I'm actually not that surprised but only because I've been reading a lot of articles lately about Muslims in Britain taking over entire neighborhoods and forcing or trying to force major changes on the communities and particularly the schools. The headlines seem to be more and more frequent since the murder of that British soldier in London by Islamic extremists (from Nigeria or Somalia I think) about a year ago.

 

[Michchamp]

Come on guys... Thread was about the Israeli government and it's policies. If you want to rant about how terrible Muslims are, put on your klan hoods and start your own thread .

 

[Mitchrapp]

When I used to book the Tonight Show audience at the Hollywood Chinese theater, i'd encounter a bunch a young Israelis that had all kinds of tattoos and stuff, the young people that I know from Israel tended not to be that religious.

You've had some great fkn jobs, damn.

 

[jwlcosu]

That's some dumb shit.

It's simple stuff, for sure, but dumb? I'd bet that a lot of the info included in that simple four minute video was news to even most of you Michigan educated guys. Let's not even talk about the masses.

 

[Michchamp]

It's simple stuff, for sure, but dumb? I'd bet that a lot of the info included in that simple four minute video was news to even most of you Michigan educated guys. Let's not even talk about the masses.

are you fucking kidding me? It wasn't news to me, because I'm familiar with this bullshit propaganda.

"Would you believe us if we said that the best litmus test of any society's success is its attitude towards Israel?"

You read a statement like that, and your bullshit detector doesn't skyrocket?

I stopped at the claim that Palestine was "sparsely populated" before 1948. You know that's been proven false right?

 

[Spartanmack]

Come on guys... Thread was about the Israeli government and it's policies. If you want to rant about how terrible Muslims are, put on your klan hoods and start your own thread .

Yes, I'm sure lot's of people who argue in favor of the JEWISH state of Israel on this subject have klan hoods laying around the house because we all know how much the Klan loves Jews. Just when I think you can't say anything more ridiculous you remind me there are no limits to your stupidity.