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Timmy Kirkjan (sp)

beez

beez

Well-known member
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Says the MVp voting could still come down to one or 2 votes and will be the closest he's seen in his 30+ years as a voter..also said he still doesn't know who he's voting for. (on Mike and Mike this morning)

I'm just sort of confused at this point I guess... 2 months ago I never even argued against Trout but now, I don't see how Cabrera doesn't get it.

Miguel leads in Slg% +42, BA+004, k's -50, 1 less walk (although he had more game than Trout), RBI +40, HR + 14, 2b +13, Won the triple crown, blew Trout away in the last 2 months in the crunch time, made the playoff in large part of his efforts and Trout missed the playoffs in large part of his efforts.

Trout is a better defender, leads in runs and SB, and has 1 more walk.................................... what am I missing? I know this kid is a phenomenon and he's having a great, great season..but how is it better than Cabrera's?
 
I agree that Miggy should win it but I think it should be close too. Trout is significantly better defensively and his baserunning can't be discounted. The "miggy made the playoffs" isn't a good argument IMO. The Angels had a better record and played in a division with two teams that made the playoffs. The ONLY reason the Tigers are in the playoffs is because they play in the weakest division. All that said....I would still vote for Miggy.
 
Last edited:
tomdalton22 said:
I agree that Miggy should win it but I think it should be close too. Trout is significantly better defensively and his baserunning can't be discounted. The "miggy made the playoffs" isn't a good argument IMO. The Angels had a better record and played in a division with two teams that made the playoffs. The ONLY reason the Tigers are in the playoffs is because they play in the weakest division. All that said....I would still vote for Miggy.
Click to expand...

I would agree to a point BUT and this is a big but...The Angels may have made the playoffs if Trout owuld have continued at his MVP numbers..he hasn't. I was all for Trout over Miggy 2 months ago but like I just told Deathroh, Cabrera has done any and everything you could ask him to do to win the MVP...if they made a list of things he needed to do to pass Trout in the last 2 months, he's checked it all off. Meanwhile Trout has gone in the wrong direction. In a society where all we seem to care about are clutch preformers (Romo, Lebron etc) how can we discount Miggy breaking the tie by smashing trout in the last 2 months of the season in a post season run where trout went away?

Like I said, Trout has been nothing short of great..MVP in just about any other season...but Cabrera has been obviously better imo this season. Trout showed up the wrong year. I strongly believe if this was Alex Gordon doing this or something instead of a rookie, people would be crowning Cabrera.
 
Trout is 4th in MLB in UZR/150 for CFers. (Jackson is 12th)

Cabrera is 26th in MLB in UZR/150 for 3B.


By no means is Fielding Percentage a good indicator.
 
Rebbiv said:
Trout is 4th in MLB in UZR/150 for CFers. (Jackson is 12th)

Cabrera is 26th in MLB in UZR/150 for 3B.


By no means is Fielding Percentage a good indicator.
Click to expand...

Jackson is 12th? Surprised by that.
 
Rebbiv said:
Trout is 4th in MLB in UZR/150 for CFers. (Jackson is 12th)

Cabrera is 26th in MLB in UZR/150 for 3B.


By no means is Fielding Percentage a good indicator.
Click to expand...

You better be careful. I got yelled at for saying that Jackson is nothing special defensively!
 
Rod Allen told me he's the best defensive CF in the game..if thats not fact I don't know what to believe anymore.
 
Miggy took over 3rd base despite it not being his preferred position and did a great job. Not a good job...a great job. Being #3 on Fielding% list for guys playing 3B is a great job defensively. It is called the "Hot Corner" for a reason and is arguably the most challenging position to play. Much more challenging than being in the outfield.

He moves over to play 3B...why? Because the TEAM needed him.

How much more "Valuable" does a guy need to be?

Rookies have "unbelievable" years every year, hence the Rookie of the Year award. Granted his was above average, but the mere fact he tapered off indicates pitchers eventually figured him out and proved he is actually average instead of a phenom.

Haven't had a Triple Crown winner in AL for 45 years.

Absolutely ridiculous there is even a "close" vote on this.
 
zyxt9 said:
Miggy took over 3rd base despite it not being his preferred position and did a great job. Not a good job...a great job. Being #3 on Fielding% list for guys playing 3B is a great job defensively. It is called the "Hot Corner" for a reason and is arguably the most challenging position to play. Much more challenging than being in the outfield.

He moves over to play 3B...why? Because the TEAM needed him.

How much more "Valuable" does a guy need to be?

Rookies have "unbelievable" years every year, hence the Rookie of the Year award. Granted his was above average, but the mere fact he tapered off indicates pitchers eventually figured him out and proved he is actually average instead of a phenom.

Haven't had a Triple Crown winner in AL for 45 years.

Absolutely ridiculous there is even a "close" vote on this.
Click to expand...


You had me until the end..you can't call Trout average because at the end of his rookie season he was remarkable. He still hit better than a rookie should at the end of the year, he just wasn't an MVP the last 2 months.
 
Trout Sep/Oct = .900 OPS

Post AS = .966 OPS

Pre AS = .959 OPS


OK...where was the tapering off?

Personally, I believe Cabrera is the MVP. However, you cannot minimize the talent and/or season that Trout has/had.


Fielding percentage only happens when I player gets to a ball. Cabrera lacks range at 3B and does not get to as many balls as the average 3B. Sure, when he does field a ball, he has been good. Fielding encompasses more than just errors.
 
It was a big move to 3rd by Miguel and I think he should get credit for that, maybe extra credit ;-). I think most of us thought he wouldn't handle as well he did.

As far as the voting, IMO, I'm not sure it should be close. People always talk about the end of the year should matter more. His August and September blew Trout away.

And don't tell me AJ is the 10th best or 12th best CF in baseball. That tells me the UZR/150 is either crap or alone doesn't give the perfect view of a defensive player.
 
Rebbiv said:
Trout Sep/Oct = .900 OPS

Post AS = .966 OPS

Pre AS = .959 OPS


OK...where was the tapering off?

Personally, I believe Cabrera is the MVP. However, you cannot minimize the talent and/or season that Trout has/had.


Fielding percentage only happens when I player gets to a ball. Cabrera lacks range at 3B and does not get to as many balls as the average 3B. Sure, when he does field a ball, he has been good. Fielding encompasses more than just errors.
Click to expand...

The tapering off was the last two months, you just posted it.
 
And for one last time, no one I MEAN NO ONE is minimizing the talent or year Trout had.
 
Mitchrapp said:
And for one last time, no one I MEAN NO ONE is minimizing the talent or year Trout had.
Click to expand...

Right, Cabrera was just better..it's that simple..Trout went backwards the last 2 months and Miggy shot ahead. If you wanna say Trout had as good/better year than Miguel at one point you'd be right but truth be told Cabrera was so much better these last 2 months that he won the MVP. (or should have)
 
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